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#Post#: 100755--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: Reiteoir
Date: January 26, 2026, 6:00 am
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--- Quote from: ARF link ---
>
> I get that misreadings/misunderstandings of the LotG happen,
but Dermot really needs to be doing his homework and
fact-checking himself before he goes on air stating false
information. And it's especially concerning that two SG1
referees (one being FIFA list) have both failed to correctly
understand/apply the Laws here.
>
> The ONLY situations where accidentally touching the ball with
the hand/arm is automatically an offence is when a player scores
directly from it, or scores immediately after the touch. The
fact the ball was otherwise going in the goal is completely
irrelevant. No-one who understands the game and the LotG would
reasonably deem the player's arm to be making him unnaturally
bigger here, and no-one for a moment thinks that it's a
deliberate handball. There is no offence here.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have to say that Dermot and the officials on this match are
correct. When the ball is clearly going into the goal and has
been stopped by the arm the correct decision is penalty + a
sanction (as we know red card for deliberate, yellow card for
non-deliberate).
UEFA have clarified that this is in line with their
interpretation in the latest UEFA RAP. Specifically they
highlight this interpretation in clip C32 from Croatia v Czechia
where in the 70th minute, Tomas Holes blocks a shot on the goal
line, however the ball hits his arm which despite being in a
natural position, prevents the ball entering the goal. The
official explanation from UEFA is "As the defender's arm
actually prevents the goal, this must be considered a handball
offence. However, the defender should only be cautioned, as the
action is deemed to be a non-deliberate handball offence."
While we may not like it, ultimately what does football expect
here? Personally I suggest football expects that justifiable
position or not, that we can't accept that a player can use
their arm to prevent a goal being scored
#Post#: 100757--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: ARF
Date: January 26, 2026, 6:11 am
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--- Quote from: Reiteoir link ---
>
> I have to say that Dermot and the officials on this match are
correct. When the ball is clearly going into the goal and has
been stopped by the arm the correct decision is penalty + a
sanction (as we know red card for deliberate, yellow card for
non-deliberate).
>
> UEFA have clarified that this is in line with their
interpretation in the latest UEFA RAP. Specifically they
highlight this interpretation in clip C32 from Croatia v Czechia
where in the 70th minute, Tomas Holes blocks a shot on the goal
line, however the ball hits his arm which despite being in a
natural position, prevents the ball entering the goal. The
official explanation from UEFA is "As the defender's arm
actually prevents the goal, this must be considered a handball
offence. However, the defender should only be cautioned, as the
action is deemed to be a non-deliberate handball offence."
>
> While we may not like it, ultimately what does football expect
here? Personally I suggest football expects that justifiable
position or not, that we can't accept that a player can use
their arm to prevent a goal being scored
>
--- End Quote ---
With respect, as per the LotG you are incorrect, as is whoever
at UEFA signed off on on the latest RAP. What any of us like or
dislike is irrelevant - the Laws are clear that this is not an
offence.
#Post#: 100759--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: January 26, 2026, 6:45 am
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Andy Davies agrees with the decision too. Before we start
slating people like Dermott Gallagher who deserves respect, we
should be sure of the facts, the LOTG and relevant guidance.
#Post#: 100761--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: Ref25
Date: January 26, 2026, 6:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Reiteoir link ---
>
>
> I have to say that Dermot and the officials on this match are
correct. When the ball is clearly going into the goal and has
been stopped by the arm the correct decision is penalty + a
sanction (as we know red card for deliberate, yellow card for
non-deliberate).
>
> UEFA have clarified that this is in line with their
interpretation in the latest UEFA RAP. Specifically they
highlight this interpretation in clip C32 from Croatia v Czechia
where in the 70th minute, Tomas Holes blocks a shot on the goal
line, however the ball hits his arm which despite being in a
natural position, prevents the ball entering the goal. The
official explanation from UEFA is "As the defender's arm
actually prevents the goal, this must be considered a handball
offence. However, the defender should only be cautioned, as the
action is deemed to be a non-deliberate handball offence."
>
> While we may not like it, ultimately what does football expect
here? Personally I suggest football expects that justifiable
position or not, that we can't accept that a player can use
their arm to prevent a goal being scored
>
--- End Quote ---
I disagree.
Having seen clip C32, the comment on the decision also says that
the arm makes the body unnaturally bigger (which I don’t think
it does).
If somebody wants to argue that the Law should say a penalty is
awarded when the ball is going into the goal and is stopped by a
hand / arm in a natural position - I get the argument for that.
We chalk goals off for these when the attacker immediately
scores, so why should we not restore the chance to score when
the reverse applies. But the LOTG don’t say that.
If the explanation on Ref Watch is correct then answer me this -
why is the player cautioned even though he hasn’t done anything
wrong and it wouldn’t be a handball anywhere else on the pitch
(possibly not even somewhere else in the penalty area)? Why is
it not a penalty only? Does football expect a player receive a
YC (possibly a second one and sent off) because he has his arm
down by his side?
There has to be a handball offence regardless of going into the
goal or not before you get to considering a sanction.
#Post#: 100762--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: January 26, 2026, 7:29 am
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Surely if unintentionally stopping the ball going into the back
of the net with the arm in a natural position it would be in the
section that defines what a hand ball offence is, if there is no
handball offence how can there be a non-deliberate handball
offence?
#Post#: 100763--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: ChippenhamCherry
Date: January 26, 2026, 7:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Failed Ref link ---
>
> Andy Davies agrees with the decision too. Before we start
slating people like Dermott Gallagher who deserves respect, we
should be sure of the facts, the LOTG and relevant guidance.
>
--- End Quote ---
The laws of the game are very clear. It's a handball offence if
a player:
"deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for example
moving the hand/arm towards the ball
touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body
unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their
body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is
not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body
movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm
in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm
being hit by the ball and being penalised
scores in the opponents’ goal:
directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by
the goalkeeper
immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if
accidental"
That's it, those are the three situations in which handball can
be penalised.
The change to the DOGSO handball law, that some are quoting as
justification for this penalty;
"Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious
goal-scoring opportunity by committing a deliberate handball
offence, the player is sent off wherever the offence occurs
(except a goalkeeper within their penalty area).
Where a player denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious
goal-scoring opportunity by committing a non-deliberate handball
offence and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is
cautioned."
appears in the "Disciplinary Action" section of the law and
relates to what disciplinary action you are supposed to take
once you've identified a handball offence that is DOGSO. It
doesn't create a new type of accidental handball offence that
applies only in DOGSO situations, which is what Gallagher and
Davies seem to think. It's aim is to ensure that, if an offence
occurs under the existing non-deliberate handball offence
definition (the "unnaturally bigger" second criteria in the
list) that is DOGSO, only a yellow should be given.
Anybody, Davies, Gallagher, Donohue, England, who is paid to
understand those laws and has failed to do so, doesn't deserve
respect.
#Post#: 100764--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: Ref25
Date: January 26, 2026, 8:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> Surely if unintentionally stopping the ball going into the
back of the net with the arm in a natural position it would be
in the section that defines what a hand ball offence is, if
there is no handball offence how can there be a non-deliberate
handball offence?
>
--- End Quote ---
Precisely.
Just as it does for the goal scorer offences (where accidental /
any touch by the arm or hand is penalised). These specifically
use the word “accidental”.
#Post#: 100787--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: January 26, 2026, 10:41 am
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Law is an ass. What if the defender was already on a yellow
card? For having his hand by his side he gets red! What could he
do? The law needs reconsidering.
#Post#: 100789--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: Claretman
Date: January 26, 2026, 10:54 am
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I wonder if we have all been mislead and it is guidance from the
pgmol to referees in the english competitions to award the
penalty kick in such circumstances whether accidental or not? If
anyone knows would be interested to hear
#Post#: 100792--------------------------------------------------
Re: Crystal Palace v Chelsea - D England (VAR M Donohue)
DIR By: rustyref
Date: January 26, 2026, 11:09 am
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It does feel like the laws have been misinterpreted, hopefully
not by the match officials but certainly those supposed experts
commenting about it. There are two decisions to make here, the
first is was it intentional handling or was the arm not in an
acceptable position for the body movement for that specific
action. At this point whether the ball would have gone into the
goal is neither here nor there, it is completely irrelevant.
It only then becomes relevant if they decide to award a penalty.
The wording of the law is confusing because when deciding the
sanction it talks about a deliberate or non-deliberate handball
offence. But what it means is if they intentionally handle the
ball it is deliberate and would be a red card. If their arm was
not deemed to be in a supportable position that would be classed
as non-deliberate and would be a caution. Think of it like
cases such as Suarez or Steven Taylor saving on the line as a
red card, whereas a player having their arm out from their body
in what is deemed to deemed to be not justifiable for the
footballing action being performed would be a yellow, they
haven't made a conscious attempt to handle it but had their arm
where it shouldn't have been.
But to be absolutely clear, there has to be a handling offence,
just because the ball was going on target is not a consideration
in deciding whether there has been an offence, it only affects
any potential sanction. The supposed football experts need to
read the law again, I really hope the referee and VAR have
fallen into this trap otherwise they will be in serious hot
water.
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