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#Post#: 7333--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: adcr85
Date: April 29, 2019, 7:56 am
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General consensus, which I mainly agree with, appears to be that
though Mr Attwell did nothing wrong he didn't appear to be in
complete control of the situation and lacked some authority in
the aftermath of the ball going in.
Just 2 points on this from me, firstly the 'strike' by El Ghazi
was around 50 seconds after the ball went in - not a massive
amount of time, but to me after almost a minute could something
be done to try and lower the temperature? Mr Attwell appears to
have spent the majority of this time ambling slightly, having
brief conversations and blowing his whistle - I'm not suggesting
he physically try and break players up but maybe doing something
a little bit more proactive may have stopped that situation
occurring?
Secondly, under whose authority would the stewards have entered
the pitch? I count at least 4 are on the pitch and 2 appear to
be actively getting involved with players, again perception
plays a big part but having outside agents on the pitch gives
the impression he has lost control which may not be fair.
#Post#: 7335--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: bmb
Date: April 29, 2019, 8:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: adcr85 link ---
>
> General consensus, which I mainly agree with, appears to be
that though Mr Attwell did nothing wrong he didn't appear to be
in complete control of the situation and lacked some authority
in the aftermath of the ball going in.
>
> Just 2 points on this from me, firstly the 'strike' by El
Ghazi was around 50 seconds after the ball went in - not a
massive amount of time, but to me after almost a minute could
something be done to try and lower the temperature? Mr Attwell
appears to have spent the majority of this time ambling
slightly, having brief conversations and blowing his whistle -
I'm not suggesting he physically try and break players up but
maybe doing something a little bit more proactive may have
stopped that situation occurring?
>
> Secondly, under whose authority would the stewards have
entered the pitch? I count at least 4 are on the pitch and 2
appear to be actively getting involved with players, again
perception plays a big part but having outside agents on the
pitch gives the impression he has lost control which may not be
fair.
>
--- End Quote ---
1st point - most refs just stand nearby & blow the whistle when
the handbags start. Seems the advice in general is to not try
and get in between and break things up but to watch, observe,
make a note of anyone who should be cautioned etc. If he had got
in a bit more & been pushed or worse, either deliberately or
accidentally, then it could lead to an avoidable red card &
whole heap of other problems.
2nd point - The match day safety officer would be the one who
would authorise/send stewards onto the pitch. (S)he and the
senior police officer in attendance are the only ones with
authority to do so as far as I am aware. Certainly was the case
when I was a match day safety officer, although that was many
moons ago & things may have changed. Whether that decision
should have been made is of course a whole different discussion!
If they went on of their own volition then other questions need
to be asked, imo.
#Post#: 7338--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: April 29, 2019, 8:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I too wondered about the presence of stewards on the pitch -
and whether it helped or escalated the situation.
I am not convinced that Attwell could have done too much more to
stop the confrontation - you could perhaps say the fact stewards
entered the pitch indicates that it was an especially aggressive
reaction that went beyond the norm.
In relation to a point made earlier, I have seen referees stop
the game when it's clear the player with the ball isn't really
carrying on with the game and isn't sure what to do. I'm not
sure that really applied in this scenario though - yes the Leeds
player slowed down but he didn't show any intention to me of
putting the ball out. He was right by the touchline so it would
have been easy enough to do if he wanted - it looked like he was
just looking for the right pass. The Villa players shouldn't
have stopped or reacted the way they did.
To be honest, I don't really see why Leeds allowed Villa to
score - in my view, they scored a perfectly good goal (at least
in terms of the factors they had control over.)
#Post#: 7371--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: April 29, 2019, 1:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Henry Winter in today's Times is pretty scathing about Attwell's
control of the situation. Winter maintains basically that he
didn't have any and simply looked on.
#Post#: 7386--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: reflector
Date: April 29, 2019, 6:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> Henry Winter in today's Times is pretty scathing about
Attwell's control of the situation. Winter maintains basically
that he didn't have any and simply looked on.
>
--- End Quote ---
As so often, Henry Winter is spot on, especially in his scathing
remarks about Stuart Attwell, who he describes as being "of
little use and standing there impotently" and of being "far too
hesitant." I accept that referees are advised to observe and
not to dive in but just standing around aimlessly blowing his
whistle without involving himself just looked like an abdication
of responsibility. He is now quite an experienced official and
surely that is just not good enough.
#Post#: 7390--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: flipmode
Date: April 29, 2019, 11:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: reflector link ---
>
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=752.msg7371#msg7371
date=1556563737]
> Henry Winter in today's Times is pretty scathing about
Attwell's control of the situation. Winter maintains basically
that he didn't have any and simply looked on.
>
--- End Quote ---
As so often, Henry Winter is spot on, especially in his scathing
remarks about Stuart Attwell, who he describes as being "of
little use and standing there impotently" and of being "far too
hesitant." I accept that referees are advised to observe and
not to dive in but just standing around aimlessly blowing his
whistle without involving himself just looked like an abdication
of responsibility. He is now quite an experienced official and
surely that is just not good enough.
[/quote]
I wouldn't have expected any of the SG1 referees to do anything
differently than Stuart did. There are some times where
jeopardising your own safety to curtail handbags just isn't
worth it, and this was one of those imo.
#Post#: 7403--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: April 30, 2019, 6:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes - it wasn't just minor handbags between two players that
could be easily settled. It needed 4 stewards to intervene,
involved a large number of players in a few separate incidents
and took some time to calm down.
I honestly don't see what Attwell could have done differently -
and he's certainly not as big/physical as some other referees I
can think of.
#Post#: 7404--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: nemesis
Date: April 30, 2019, 6:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> Yes - it wasn't just minor handbags between two players that
could be easily settled. It needed 4 stewards to intervene,
involved a large number of players in a few separate incidents
and took some time to calm down.
>
> I honestly don't see what Attwell could have done differently
- and he's certainly not as big/physical as some other referees
I can think of.
>
--- End Quote ---
Such a huge disturbance that it only was worthy of one red card,
wrongly issued ?
#Post#: 7406--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: April 30, 2019, 7:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=752.msg7403#msg7403
date=1556623089]
> Yes - it wasn't just minor handbags between two players that
could be easily settled. It needed 4 stewards to intervene,
involved a large number of players in a few separate incidents
and took some time to calm down.
>
> I honestly don't see what Attwell could have done differently
- and he's certainly not as big/physical as some other referees
I can think of.
>
--- End Quote ---
Such a huge disturbance that it only was worthy of one red card,
wrongly issued ?
[/quote]
Well, it seems there were others that were missed because they
occurred out of the officials' vision.
I would guess there will be further charges to follow.
#Post#: 7410--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mr Attwell Leeds v Villa
DIR By: nemesis
Date: April 30, 2019, 8:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=nemesis link=topic=752.msg7404#msg7404
date=1556624109]
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=752.msg7403#msg7403
date=1556623089]
> Yes - it wasn't just minor handbags between two players that
could be easily settled. It needed 4 stewards to intervene,
involved a large number of players in a few separate incidents
and took some time to calm down.
>
> I honestly don't see what Attwell could have done differently
- and he's certainly not as big/physical as some other referees
I can think of.
>
--- End Quote ---
Such a huge disturbance that it only was worthy of one red card,
wrongly issued ?
[/quote]
Well, it seems there were others that were missed because they
occurred out of the officials' vision.
I would guess there will be further charges to follow.
[/quote]
So much for adopting a watching brief. The only thing they saw
didn't happen !
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