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       #Post#: 9193--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: Hendo
       Date: July 13, 2019, 7:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: TVOS link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=745.msg9191#msg9191
       date=1563011372]
       > I too agree with the views expressed about Dharmasena. However
       I am also of the view that there is no place in cricket for the
       sort of dissent shown by Roy when he was given out caught
       behind. What was he thinking about when his team was so close to
       the Final? I think he can count himself extremely fortunate that
       he is not sitting out the Final through suspension as he surely
       would have done if he had shown that sort of dissent in a
       football semi and got himself sent off. Hypothesising but I
       wonder whether Dharma would have got the Final had Roy been
       suspended. And not hypothesising, will there be another bad
       decision followed by dissent tomorrow?  We shall see!
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       "The sort of dissent"?? Talk about hyperbole!
       His dissent was nowhere near deserving of any form of suspension
       and the football analogy is wide of the mark. Football players
       rant and rave, wave their arms about, point, gesticulate, eff
       and blind, etc, with nothing happening to them.
       I know cricket is a completely different game, but so were Roy's
       reactions compared to footballers.
       Watch it again; stunned silence at first, then a couple of
       enquiries about what was going on. He reserved most of the
       cursing until he was on his way off the pitch and into the
       changing rooms.
       [/quote]
       Incidentally I thought Marais Erasmus, who must surely be the
       no. 1 umpire in the world now, handled the immediate aftermath
       superbly. Came up to Roy without any flamboyant histrionics and
       quietly explained to him what had happened and almost gently
       with a hand on his shoulder persuaded him to leave.
       Maybe just me but I got the impression that he realised it was a
       poor decision by his hopeless colleague but was powerless to do
       anything about it.
       #Post#: 9194--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: Acme Thunderer
       Date: July 13, 2019, 8:32 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Point taken TVOS, I just happen to have played my cricket at a
       time when even raising your eyebrow at the umpire's decision was
       grounds for being dropped. I agree fully with your view Hendo
       about Erasmus. If Dhama had realised that his decision was
       wrong, given all that went on, would it not have been possible
       for him to ask for his decision to be reviewed? Just interested.
       #Post#: 9196--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: TVOS
       Date: July 13, 2019, 11:30 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
       >
       > Point taken TVOS, I just happen to have played my cricket at a
       time when even raising your eyebrow at the umpire's decision was
       grounds for being dropped. I agree fully with your view Hendo
       about Erasmus. If Dhama had realised that his decision was
       wrong, given all that went on, would it not have been possible
       for him to ask for his decision to be reviewed? Just interested.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Not sure of the protocol over that, but it could open up another
       whole can of worms.
       #Post#: 9197--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: guest18
       Date: July 13, 2019, 11:36 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
       >
       > Point taken TVOS, I just happen to have played my cricket at a
       time when even raising your eyebrow at the umpire's decision was
       grounds for being dropped. I agree fully with your view Hendo
       about Erasmus. If Dhama had realised that his decision was
       wrong, given all that went on, would it not have been possible
       for him to ask for his decision to be reviewed? Just interested.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       An interesting point you make at the end. However, if that was
       an option, you would in effect be giving any team who made
       sufficient fuss, an extra review after their allocation had been
       used.
       As I have already said, there wouldn’t have been any discussion
       if Bairstow hadn’t made the ludicrous decision to review his
       plumb lbw.
       #Post#: 9213--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: Ref Fan
       Date: July 15, 2019, 3:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Well, what a Final!
       Firstly, regarding the 4 extra runs when the throw accidentally
       hit Stokes or his bat as he dived for the crease and went to the
       boundary.  Am I right in thinking that had the ball not reached
       the boundary, then judging by Stokes reaction, it's accepted
       sporting protocol that the batsmen would not have run and only
       the 2 would have counted, but the umpires have no jurisdiction
       to rule out the boundary?  Essentially it was that incident that
       led to the super over.  Just seems a tad unfair somehow.
       As for the umpires, I was surprised Dharmasena missed the edge
       that was rightly overturned when England reviewed.  But Erasmus
       will have been disappointed giving Taylor out LBW (no review)
       when even to my eye (and the commentator's) it looked more
       likely the ball would have gone over the top of the stumps.  Was
       there another LBW that was shown on review to be missing leg?
       Then there was the appeal for LBW on the first ball of the
       England innings.  Umpire's call but the review showed the ball
       was only about 0.5cm from hitting leg stump full on.  Not a
       great decision in my book at that level and Roy could count
       himself very lucky.  Fortunately, he didn't go on to score too
       many on this occasion.
       Full marks to both sides for sportsmanship.  NZ will maybe
       regret that they tended to score a bit too slowly for too long
       not just in the Final, and the dropped C&B by Grandhomme cost
       them a few Bairstow runs.  But a thrilling spectacle and it sets
       up the Ashes nicely.
       #Post#: 9216--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: guest18
       Date: July 15, 2019, 4:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
       >
       > Well, what a Final!
       >
       > Firstly, regarding the 4 extra runs when the throw
       accidentally hit Stokes or his bat as he dived for the crease
       and went to the boundary.  Am I right in thinking that had the
       ball not reached the boundary, then judging by Stokes reaction,
       it's accepted sporting protocol that the batsmen would not have
       run and only the 2 would have counted, but the umpires have no
       jurisdiction to rule out the boundary?  Essentially it was that
       incident that led to the super over.  Just seems a tad unfair
       somehow.
       >
       > As for the umpires, I was surprised Dharmasena missed the edge
       that was rightly overturned when England reviewed.  But Erasmus
       will have been disappointed giving Taylor out LBW (no review)
       when even to my eye (and the commentator's) it looked more
       likely the ball would have gone over the top of the stumps.  Was
       there another LBW that was shown on review to be missing leg?
       >
       > Then there was the appeal for LBW on the first ball of the
       England innings.  Umpire's call but the review showed the ball
       was only about 0.5cm from hitting leg stump full on.  Not a
       great decision in my book at that level and Roy could count
       himself very lucky.  Fortunately, he didn't go on to score too
       many on this occasion.
       >
       > Full marks to both sides for sportsmanship.  NZ will maybe
       regret that they tended to score a bit too slowly for too long
       not just in the Final, and the dropped C&B by Grandhomme cost
       them a few Bairstow runs.  But a thrilling spectacle and it sets
       up the Ashes nicely.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I think you are being a tad harsh there on Erasmus. It is
       accepted that DRS is not definitive for lbw as it only projects
       the likely path of the ball, hence the facility for umpires
       call. Regarding Taylor’s dismissal, from Erasmus’s eyeline, the
       ball probably didn’t appear to be bouncing as high as it did
       from the camera angle.
       Interestingly there is now a debate on whether England should
       have been given 5 runs after the ball hit Stokes bat, rather
       than the 6. It all hinges on whether the batsmen had crossed at
       the moment the ball was released by Guptill. That would have
       meant Rashid facing the final ball
       #Post#: 9218--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: BabyRef
       Date: July 15, 2019, 5:50 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Simon Taufel has said it was a mistake and should have been 5
       runs. Wouldn't be the first time there was an error in law in a
       World Cup Final (2007)
       #Post#: 9219--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: Ref Fan
       Date: July 15, 2019, 6:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: doowe link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Ref Fan link=topic=745.msg9213#msg9213
       date=1563178239]
       > Well, what a Final!
       >
       > Firstly, regarding the 4 extra runs when the throw
       accidentally hit Stokes or his bat as he dived for the crease
       and went to the boundary.  Am I right in thinking that had the
       ball not reached the boundary, then judging by Stokes reaction,
       it's accepted sporting protocol that the batsmen would not have
       run and only the 2 would have counted, but the umpires have no
       jurisdiction to rule out the boundary?  Essentially it was that
       incident that led to the super over.  Just seems a tad unfair
       somehow.
       >
       > As for the umpires, I was surprised Dharmasena missed the edge
       that was rightly overturned when England reviewed.  But Erasmus
       will have been disappointed giving Taylor out LBW (no review)
       when even to my eye (and the commentator's) it looked more
       likely the ball would have gone over the top of the stumps.  Was
       there another LBW that was shown on review to be missing leg?
       >
       > Then there was the appeal for LBW on the first ball of the
       England innings.  Umpire's call but the review showed the ball
       was only about 0.5cm from hitting leg stump full on.  Not a
       great decision in my book at that level and Roy could count
       himself very lucky.  Fortunately, he didn't go on to score too
       many on this occasion.
       >
       > Full marks to both sides for sportsmanship.  NZ will maybe
       regret that they tended to score a bit too slowly for too long
       not just in the Final, and the dropped C&B by Grandhomme cost
       them a few Bairstow runs.  But a thrilling spectacle and it sets
       up the Ashes nicely.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I think you are being a tad harsh there on Erasmus. It is
       accepted that DRS is not definitive for lbw as it only projects
       the likely path of the ball, hence the facility for umpires
       call. Regarding Taylor’s dismissal, from Erasmus’s eyeliner, the
       ball probably didn’t appear to be bouncing as high as it did
       from the camera angle.
       Interestingly there is now a debate on whether England should
       have been given 5 runs after the ball hit Stokes bat, rather
       than the 6. It all hinges on whether the batsmen had crossed at
       the moment the ball was released by Guptill. That would have
       meant Rashid facing the final ball
       [/quote]
       AT had started a thread on General Discussion (now moved to
       non-footy board) where I acknowledged I'd perhaps been a tad
       harsh on the umpires whose calmness and inter-action with the
       players was very good.  Nevertheless, the apparent error with
       the Taylor LBW could have been crucial (although Neesham was
       probably more likely to score at a faster rate). Interesting
       whether the 6 runs should only have been 5 and taken Stokes off
       strike.
       #Post#: 9220--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: Ref Fan
       Date: July 15, 2019, 6:41 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I wonder if the umpires thought / assumed the batsmen had
       crossed for the second run or whether in the heat of the moment
       they forgot the law. If they hadn't overlooked the law, could
       they have asked the 3rd umpire to review the footage (in the
       same way they can for a clean catch) if there was any doubt in
       their minds whether the batsmen had crossed when the throw was
       released?
       Delighted though I am that England have finally won a World Cup
       Final after 3 losing finals, it is tarnished slightly by the
       controversial circumstances.  I note there has been some
       criticism of the rule about the most boundaries deciding the
       result by players of other countries.  Mind you, I think NZ went
       15 overs without scoring a boundary at one stage although it
       wasn't thr easiest of pitches for big hitting.
       #Post#: 9221--------------------------------------------------
       Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
   DIR By: guest18
       Date: July 15, 2019, 7:04 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
       >
       > I wonder if the umpires thought / assumed the batsmen had
       crossed for the second run or whether in the heat of the moment
       they forgot the law. If they hadn't overlooked the law, could
       they have asked the 3rd umpire to review the footage (in the
       same way they can for a clean catch) if there was any doubt in
       their minds whether the batsmen had crossed when the throw was
       released?
       >
       > Delighted though I am that England have finally won a World
       Cup Final after 3 losing finals, it is tarnished slightly by the
       controversial circumstances.  I note there has been some
       criticism of the rule about the most boundaries deciding the
       result by players of other countries.  Mind you, I think NZ went
       15 overs without scoring a boundary at one stage although it
       wasn't thr easiest of pitches for big hitting.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I doubt that both of the umpires would overlook the law and
       instead, assumed the batsmen had crosse. After all they would
       probably have been more concerned with being in a position to
       judge a run out. It’s a good question re the DRS umpire. My
       grandson called the possibility of it only being a 5 straight
       away
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