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#Post#: 9193--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: Hendo
Date: July 13, 2019, 7:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TVOS link ---
>
> [quote author=Acme Thunderer link=topic=745.msg9191#msg9191
date=1563011372]
> I too agree with the views expressed about Dharmasena. However
I am also of the view that there is no place in cricket for the
sort of dissent shown by Roy when he was given out caught
behind. What was he thinking about when his team was so close to
the Final? I think he can count himself extremely fortunate that
he is not sitting out the Final through suspension as he surely
would have done if he had shown that sort of dissent in a
football semi and got himself sent off. Hypothesising but I
wonder whether Dharma would have got the Final had Roy been
suspended. And not hypothesising, will there be another bad
decision followed by dissent tomorrow? We shall see!
>
--- End Quote ---
"The sort of dissent"?? Talk about hyperbole!
His dissent was nowhere near deserving of any form of suspension
and the football analogy is wide of the mark. Football players
rant and rave, wave their arms about, point, gesticulate, eff
and blind, etc, with nothing happening to them.
I know cricket is a completely different game, but so were Roy's
reactions compared to footballers.
Watch it again; stunned silence at first, then a couple of
enquiries about what was going on. He reserved most of the
cursing until he was on his way off the pitch and into the
changing rooms.
[/quote]
Incidentally I thought Marais Erasmus, who must surely be the
no. 1 umpire in the world now, handled the immediate aftermath
superbly. Came up to Roy without any flamboyant histrionics and
quietly explained to him what had happened and almost gently
with a hand on his shoulder persuaded him to leave.
Maybe just me but I got the impression that he realised it was a
poor decision by his hopeless colleague but was powerless to do
anything about it.
#Post#: 9194--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: July 13, 2019, 8:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Point taken TVOS, I just happen to have played my cricket at a
time when even raising your eyebrow at the umpire's decision was
grounds for being dropped. I agree fully with your view Hendo
about Erasmus. If Dhama had realised that his decision was
wrong, given all that went on, would it not have been possible
for him to ask for his decision to be reviewed? Just interested.
#Post#: 9196--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: TVOS
Date: July 13, 2019, 11:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> Point taken TVOS, I just happen to have played my cricket at a
time when even raising your eyebrow at the umpire's decision was
grounds for being dropped. I agree fully with your view Hendo
about Erasmus. If Dhama had realised that his decision was
wrong, given all that went on, would it not have been possible
for him to ask for his decision to be reviewed? Just interested.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not sure of the protocol over that, but it could open up another
whole can of worms.
#Post#: 9197--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: guest18
Date: July 13, 2019, 11:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> Point taken TVOS, I just happen to have played my cricket at a
time when even raising your eyebrow at the umpire's decision was
grounds for being dropped. I agree fully with your view Hendo
about Erasmus. If Dhama had realised that his decision was
wrong, given all that went on, would it not have been possible
for him to ask for his decision to be reviewed? Just interested.
>
--- End Quote ---
An interesting point you make at the end. However, if that was
an option, you would in effect be giving any team who made
sufficient fuss, an extra review after their allocation had been
used.
As I have already said, there wouldn’t have been any discussion
if Bairstow hadn’t made the ludicrous decision to review his
plumb lbw.
#Post#: 9213--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: July 15, 2019, 3:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, what a Final!
Firstly, regarding the 4 extra runs when the throw accidentally
hit Stokes or his bat as he dived for the crease and went to the
boundary. Am I right in thinking that had the ball not reached
the boundary, then judging by Stokes reaction, it's accepted
sporting protocol that the batsmen would not have run and only
the 2 would have counted, but the umpires have no jurisdiction
to rule out the boundary? Essentially it was that incident that
led to the super over. Just seems a tad unfair somehow.
As for the umpires, I was surprised Dharmasena missed the edge
that was rightly overturned when England reviewed. But Erasmus
will have been disappointed giving Taylor out LBW (no review)
when even to my eye (and the commentator's) it looked more
likely the ball would have gone over the top of the stumps. Was
there another LBW that was shown on review to be missing leg?
Then there was the appeal for LBW on the first ball of the
England innings. Umpire's call but the review showed the ball
was only about 0.5cm from hitting leg stump full on. Not a
great decision in my book at that level and Roy could count
himself very lucky. Fortunately, he didn't go on to score too
many on this occasion.
Full marks to both sides for sportsmanship. NZ will maybe
regret that they tended to score a bit too slowly for too long
not just in the Final, and the dropped C&B by Grandhomme cost
them a few Bairstow runs. But a thrilling spectacle and it sets
up the Ashes nicely.
#Post#: 9216--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: guest18
Date: July 15, 2019, 4:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> Well, what a Final!
>
> Firstly, regarding the 4 extra runs when the throw
accidentally hit Stokes or his bat as he dived for the crease
and went to the boundary. Am I right in thinking that had the
ball not reached the boundary, then judging by Stokes reaction,
it's accepted sporting protocol that the batsmen would not have
run and only the 2 would have counted, but the umpires have no
jurisdiction to rule out the boundary? Essentially it was that
incident that led to the super over. Just seems a tad unfair
somehow.
>
> As for the umpires, I was surprised Dharmasena missed the edge
that was rightly overturned when England reviewed. But Erasmus
will have been disappointed giving Taylor out LBW (no review)
when even to my eye (and the commentator's) it looked more
likely the ball would have gone over the top of the stumps. Was
there another LBW that was shown on review to be missing leg?
>
> Then there was the appeal for LBW on the first ball of the
England innings. Umpire's call but the review showed the ball
was only about 0.5cm from hitting leg stump full on. Not a
great decision in my book at that level and Roy could count
himself very lucky. Fortunately, he didn't go on to score too
many on this occasion.
>
> Full marks to both sides for sportsmanship. NZ will maybe
regret that they tended to score a bit too slowly for too long
not just in the Final, and the dropped C&B by Grandhomme cost
them a few Bairstow runs. But a thrilling spectacle and it sets
up the Ashes nicely.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you are being a tad harsh there on Erasmus. It is
accepted that DRS is not definitive for lbw as it only projects
the likely path of the ball, hence the facility for umpires
call. Regarding Taylor’s dismissal, from Erasmus’s eyeline, the
ball probably didn’t appear to be bouncing as high as it did
from the camera angle.
Interestingly there is now a debate on whether England should
have been given 5 runs after the ball hit Stokes bat, rather
than the 6. It all hinges on whether the batsmen had crossed at
the moment the ball was released by Guptill. That would have
meant Rashid facing the final ball
#Post#: 9218--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: BabyRef
Date: July 15, 2019, 5:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Simon Taufel has said it was a mistake and should have been 5
runs. Wouldn't be the first time there was an error in law in a
World Cup Final (2007)
#Post#: 9219--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: July 15, 2019, 6:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: doowe link ---
>
> [quote author=Ref Fan link=topic=745.msg9213#msg9213
date=1563178239]
> Well, what a Final!
>
> Firstly, regarding the 4 extra runs when the throw
accidentally hit Stokes or his bat as he dived for the crease
and went to the boundary. Am I right in thinking that had the
ball not reached the boundary, then judging by Stokes reaction,
it's accepted sporting protocol that the batsmen would not have
run and only the 2 would have counted, but the umpires have no
jurisdiction to rule out the boundary? Essentially it was that
incident that led to the super over. Just seems a tad unfair
somehow.
>
> As for the umpires, I was surprised Dharmasena missed the edge
that was rightly overturned when England reviewed. But Erasmus
will have been disappointed giving Taylor out LBW (no review)
when even to my eye (and the commentator's) it looked more
likely the ball would have gone over the top of the stumps. Was
there another LBW that was shown on review to be missing leg?
>
> Then there was the appeal for LBW on the first ball of the
England innings. Umpire's call but the review showed the ball
was only about 0.5cm from hitting leg stump full on. Not a
great decision in my book at that level and Roy could count
himself very lucky. Fortunately, he didn't go on to score too
many on this occasion.
>
> Full marks to both sides for sportsmanship. NZ will maybe
regret that they tended to score a bit too slowly for too long
not just in the Final, and the dropped C&B by Grandhomme cost
them a few Bairstow runs. But a thrilling spectacle and it sets
up the Ashes nicely.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think you are being a tad harsh there on Erasmus. It is
accepted that DRS is not definitive for lbw as it only projects
the likely path of the ball, hence the facility for umpires
call. Regarding Taylor’s dismissal, from Erasmus’s eyeliner, the
ball probably didn’t appear to be bouncing as high as it did
from the camera angle.
Interestingly there is now a debate on whether England should
have been given 5 runs after the ball hit Stokes bat, rather
than the 6. It all hinges on whether the batsmen had crossed at
the moment the ball was released by Guptill. That would have
meant Rashid facing the final ball
[/quote]
AT had started a thread on General Discussion (now moved to
non-footy board) where I acknowledged I'd perhaps been a tad
harsh on the umpires whose calmness and inter-action with the
players was very good. Nevertheless, the apparent error with
the Taylor LBW could have been crucial (although Neesham was
probably more likely to score at a faster rate). Interesting
whether the 6 runs should only have been 5 and taken Stokes off
strike.
#Post#: 9220--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: July 15, 2019, 6:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if the umpires thought / assumed the batsmen had
crossed for the second run or whether in the heat of the moment
they forgot the law. If they hadn't overlooked the law, could
they have asked the 3rd umpire to review the footage (in the
same way they can for a clean catch) if there was any doubt in
their minds whether the batsmen had crossed when the throw was
released?
Delighted though I am that England have finally won a World Cup
Final after 3 losing finals, it is tarnished slightly by the
controversial circumstances. I note there has been some
criticism of the rule about the most boundaries deciding the
result by players of other countries. Mind you, I think NZ went
15 overs without scoring a boundary at one stage although it
wasn't thr easiest of pitches for big hitting.
#Post#: 9221--------------------------------------------------
Re: ICC Cricket World Cup 2019
DIR By: guest18
Date: July 15, 2019, 7:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> I wonder if the umpires thought / assumed the batsmen had
crossed for the second run or whether in the heat of the moment
they forgot the law. If they hadn't overlooked the law, could
they have asked the 3rd umpire to review the footage (in the
same way they can for a clean catch) if there was any doubt in
their minds whether the batsmen had crossed when the throw was
released?
>
> Delighted though I am that England have finally won a World
Cup Final after 3 losing finals, it is tarnished slightly by the
controversial circumstances. I note there has been some
criticism of the rule about the most boundaries deciding the
result by players of other countries. Mind you, I think NZ went
15 overs without scoring a boundary at one stage although it
wasn't thr easiest of pitches for big hitting.
>
--- End Quote ---
I doubt that both of the umpires would overlook the law and
instead, assumed the batsmen had crosse. After all they would
probably have been more concerned with being in a position to
judge a run out. It’s a good question re the DRS umpire. My
grandson called the possibility of it only being a 5 straight
away
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