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#Post#: 97971--------------------------------------------------
SG1 ‘Squad depth’
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: November 25, 2025, 1:01 pm
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I came across a clip of Mike Dean on the overlap giving his
opinion of that he believes that the depth of the current SG1 is
pretty poor.
“I think the list in the premier league is not the strongest
it’s ever been. You take the top 4 refs out of it, we’re
struggling. If you take out Oliver, Taylor and Kavanagh out of
that group for 3 months, they’d have a hell of a job trying to
get some ‘bigger refs’ to referee them big games because there’s
no strength in depth”.
I can’t comment on SG1 depth from 10/20 years ago because I
wasn’t around to evaluate that so I’ll leave that to others to
decide. But I do have to disagree with Dean about there being no
strength in depth because I think there is. Barrott, Brooks,
Gillett are all more than capable. Bramall and Harrington, the
two most underrated on the list would deservedly get higher
profile games. And even then we still have the likes of Pawson,
Hooper, Attwell, Bankes, Madley, Tierney who’ve all refereed
some of the biggest games the premier league has to offer.
Couple that with the development of referees on the
supplementary list and some SG2 - Kirk, Kitchen, Hallam, Ricardo
to name a few - and we’d been in a very strong position.
However I was glad he dismissed claims from Carragher about
bringing the best foreign referees from other countries. And I
was quite glad he said that leagues in other countries still
have similar issues. There’s a mindset in this country in
particular that the standard of refereeing in abroad is so far
superior to the premier league, which is simply untrue. I’m
pretty certain fans of teams abroad often clamour for English
referees to come over to their league.
#Post#: 97973--------------------------------------------------
Re: SG1 ‘Squad depth’
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: November 25, 2025, 1:28 pm
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It's a constant refrain from those who were at the top of their
professions years ago, whatever those professions may be, that
"things aren't as good/ competent/ strong as they were in my
day". Heard it so often and pretty much take it with a handful
of salt.
#Post#: 97978--------------------------------------------------
Re: SG1 ‘Squad depth’
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: November 25, 2025, 2:50 pm
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--- Quote from: TA_Ref link ---
>
> I came across a clip of Mike Dean on the overlap giving his
opinion of that he believes that the depth of the current SG1 is
pretty poor.
>
> “I think the list in the premier league is not the strongest
it’s ever been. You take the top 4 refs out of it, we’re
struggling. If you take out Oliver, Taylor and Kavanagh out of
that group for 3 months, they’d have a hell of a job trying to
get some ‘bigger refs’ to referee them big games because there’s
no strength in depth”.
>
> I can’t comment on SG1 depth from 10/20 years ago because I
wasn’t around to evaluate that so I’ll leave that to others to
decide. But I do have to disagree with Dean about there being no
strength in depth because I think there is. Barrott, Brooks,
Gillett are all more than capable. Bramall and Harrington, the
two most underrated on the list would deservedly get higher
profile games. And even then we still have the likes of Pawson,
Hooper, Attwell, Bankes, Madley, Tierney who’ve all refereed
some of the biggest games the premier league has to offer.
Couple that with the development of referees on the
supplementary list and some SG2 - Kirk, Kitchen, Hallam, Ricardo
to name a few - and we’d been in a very strong position.
>
> However I was glad he dismissed claims from Carragher about
bringing the best foreign referees from other countries. And I
was quite glad he said that leagues in other countries still
have similar issues. There’s a mindset in this country in
particular that the standard of refereeing in abroad is so far
superior to the premier league, which is simply untrue. I’m
pretty certain fans of teams abroad often clamour for English
referees to come over to their league.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yet when Dean was officiating in the PL under Hacketts
disastrous command of the PGMOL, the depth was worse in those
days!
Poll was the only one getting all the big games…
We are only just seeing the future elite officials for UEFA
starting to develop in the PL… Brooks and Barrott.
There seems to be a good talent pool in the wings when some of
the current established referees hang up their boots too… Kirk,
Hallam and Kitchen.
We didn’t even have enough officials when Dean was around at the
end of his career to actually fill all the vacancies!
#Post#: 97990--------------------------------------------------
Re: SG1 ‘Squad depth’
DIR By: adcr85
Date: November 26, 2025, 3:24 am
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Yeah, agree that we have some very good "up and comers" however
I think the point Dean was leaning towards was say look at the
19/20 season when as well as Taylor/Oliver who were established
you had the premier league experience of Dean himself, Marriner,
Atkinson and Friend who had all done at least a decade in the PL
and could be given a big 6 V big 6 match and no one would bat an
eyelid.
Looking at the list of good referees you have listed Barrott 3rd
season, Brammall 4th season, Brooks 5th season, Gillett 5th
season all have a lot of potential, and have done a few big
matches - but guaranteed on this website for example - if
Chelsea v Arsenal had Brooks or Gillett in the middle there
would be shock, some optimisim, but definitely a thought of 'can
they cope at the very top level'
#Post#: 97992--------------------------------------------------
Re: SG1 ‘Squad depth’
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: November 26, 2025, 4:00 am
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The contributions to this thread make me very aware of the great
debt professional football owes to Michael Oliver and Anthony
Taylor. Not only do they shoulder a huge number of high profile
and potentially difficult PL matches each season, they also play
a full part in officiating in European football competitions and
the World Cup. I do not remember either of them having any
significant time off because of injury; that may be good fortune
on their part or because they look after their bodies and minds
incredibly well ( probably a combination of the two ).
Honours are sometimes given to referees, Jack Taylor, Howard
Webb, George Courtney, David Elleray and Hugh Dallas among that
number and I hope when Oliver and Taylor come to the end of
their illustrious careers they too might be honoured. I know the
argument against such honours is "that they are given to people
for just doing their job " but since so many of them are awarded
on that basis, I hope Oliver's and Taylor's contribution to the
important football industry and representing their country with
distinction might be acknowledged.
#Post#: 98005--------------------------------------------------
Re: SG1 ‘Squad depth’
DIR By: Matt1234
Date: November 26, 2025, 2:58 pm
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There was a time when the list of premier league referees read
as Poll, Webb, Clattenburg, Riley, Wiley, Styles, Bennett,
Gallagher and Dean. All of whom officiate the biggest games. The
depth in SG1 won't improve unless other referees are trusted
with the bigger games
#Post#: 98008--------------------------------------------------
Re: SG1 ‘Squad depth’
DIR By: PhiltheRef
Date: November 27, 2025, 3:18 am
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A question as part of my response if I might?
At the time of which you speak, arguably there was less exposure
/ scrutiny of Referees, particularly those stepping up.
Social Media, together with every match having significant TV
coverage, particularly in Prem and Championship means that a
'new' PL Official cannot just slide in under the radar as it
were and get settled without huge scrutiny and, normally
significant criticism because they are not Messrs Taylor or
Oliver.
I would contend that, rightly or otherwise, this may influence
appointment of the up and comers.
The issue of ability and quality of individual Officials is
also, of course, a significant factor, but maybe for another
post?
#Post#: 98013--------------------------------------------------
Re: SG1 ‘Squad depth’
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: November 27, 2025, 5:32 am
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--- Quote from: PhiltheRef link ---
>
> A question as part of my response if I might?
>
> At the time of which you speak, arguably there was less
exposure / scrutiny of Referees, particularly those stepping up.
>
> Social Media, together with every match having significant TV
coverage, particularly in Prem and Championship means that a
'new' PL Official cannot just slide in under the radar as it
were and get settled without huge scrutiny and, normally
significant criticism because they are not Messrs Taylor or
Oliver.
> I would contend that, rightly or otherwise, this may influence
appointment of the up and comers.
>
> The issue of ability and quality of individual Officials is
also, of course, a significant factor, but maybe for another
post?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think that’s a very valid point that you made.
I suppose the prime example is the decision to disallow Morgan
Rogers’ goal against Man Utd by Thomas Bramall. That was one of,
I think, 3 KMI’s that went against Aston Villa that day with
this on being the most controversial of them.
The media publicity that this decision got was remarkable,
especially with Aston Villa writing to the premier league to
question Tom Bramall’s experience in handling such an important
game.
So you are right in terms of the publicity a lesser known
referee may get from making a mistakes. Its consequences
(whether justified or not) could be very substantial, not just
for clubs but for the referees own confidence and development.
But the refereeing ability of Tom Bramall I believe is there for
all to see. He’s a top quality official who deserves to be
refereeing in the premier league on a regular basis.
#Post#: 98017--------------------------------------------------
Re: SG1 ‘Squad depth’
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: November 27, 2025, 7:46 am
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There is no hiding place for any referee in the top tiers of
professional football these days. Every decision is picked over
with the benefit of numerous camera angles and slow motion
replays. What a contrast to the 1970s when a particularly
egregious decision was met with little more than an outraged
comment in the pink 'un and swiftly forgotten.
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