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#Post#: 97171--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: rustyref
Date: November 3, 2025, 4:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> [quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=7378.msg97159#msg97159
date=1762207529]
> [quote author=TC021002 link=topic=7378.msg97156#msg97156
date=1762207059]
> Pretty good again from Bramall, think the the no handball
decision is acceptable but would probably be given in UEFA/FIFA
games.
>
--- End Quote ---
Wrongly so as anyone who has played the game will tell you. When
turning, as Keane was, his arms have to move with the body
because they are attached and they can go nowhere else other
than where they went. THe problem is that it would appear that
so many people have not played the game at a decent level and
have no conception of what happens when you are turning at
speed.
THomas Bramaal did extremely well tonight in a hositle
atmosphere because he had disciplined two Sunderland players
early on and righly so.
[/quote]
The only people who think it wasn't handball is team ref,
everton fans, Sunderland fans and neutrals all know he made his
body unnaturally bigger, that's given in 99/100 games. Another
case of why are English referees unable to enforce the rules
correctly, problems right at the top?
[/quote]
That really doesn't work. Sunderland are my second team, I've
always followed them since I lived there for a few years, but I
don't think that was a penalty. You really need to have a sleep
and then see if the red blinkers are still as stong tomorrow,
posting on your own team straight after the game rarely results
in objective comments.
#Post#: 97172--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: rustyref
Date: November 3, 2025, 4:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> [quote author=aaa link=topic=7378.msg97162#msg97162
date=1762208248]
> We have law of the game, not rules.
>
> People lose credibility on this site if they cannot separate
their emotional feelings as a fan from a constructive summary of
a Referee's performance with examples of incidents.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ball hits an outstretched hand making his body unnaturally
bigger, closing ranks isn't how things improve honesty is
[/quote]
If you are going to criticise the match officials you really
need to get the laws right. There is absolutely nothing in the
laws about players making themself unnaturally bigger, that was
taken out a couple of seasons ago.
#Post#: 97173--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: November 3, 2025, 5:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97164#msg97164
date=1762208495]
> [quote author=aaa link=topic=7378.msg97162#msg97162
date=1762208248]
> We have law of the game, not rules.
>
> People lose credibility on this site if they cannot separate
their emotional feelings as a fan from a constructive summary of
a Referee's performance with examples of incidents.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ball hits an outstretched hand making his body unnaturally
bigger, closing ranks isn't how things improve honesty is
[/quote]
If you are going to criticise the match officials you really
need to get the laws right. There is absolutely nothing in the
laws about players making themself unnaturally bigger, that was
taken out a couple of seasons ago.
[/quote]
We can discuss wording or we can discuss the brilliant save by
keane, justifiable position is what they have said which it is
if the justification is making yourself bigger to block a shot
#Post#: 97174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: rustyref
Date: November 3, 2025, 5:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=7378.msg97172#msg97172
date=1762210503]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97164#msg97164
date=1762208495]
> [quote author=aaa link=topic=7378.msg97162#msg97162
date=1762208248]
> We have law of the game, not rules.
>
> People lose credibility on this site if they cannot separate
their emotional feelings as a fan from a constructive summary of
a Referee's performance with examples of incidents.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ball hits an outstretched hand making his body unnaturally
bigger, closing ranks isn't how things improve honesty is
[/quote]
If you are going to criticise the match officials you really
need to get the laws right. There is absolutely nothing in the
laws about players making themself unnaturally bigger, that was
taken out a couple of seasons ago.
[/quote]
We can discuss wording or we can discuss the brilliant save by
keane, justifiable position is what they have said which it is
if the justification is making yourself bigger to block a shot
[/quote]
Was his arm in the expected position for the footballing action
being performed? I personally think it was, he had just turned
and was moving so his arms were exactly where I'd expect them to
be. Plus we know that PGMOL officials are told to look at
proximity, and this was very close from the ball being kicked to
it hitting the arm.
#Post#: 97175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: November 3, 2025, 5:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97173#msg97173
date=1762210833]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=7378.msg97172#msg97172
date=1762210503]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97164#msg97164
date=1762208495]
> [quote author=aaa link=topic=7378.msg97162#msg97162
date=1762208248]
> We have law of the game, not rules.
>
> People lose credibility on this site if they cannot separate
their emotional feelings as a fan from a constructive summary of
a Referee's performance with examples of incidents.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ball hits an outstretched hand making his body unnaturally
bigger, closing ranks isn't how things improve honesty is
[/quote]
If you are going to criticise the match officials you really
need to get the laws right. There is absolutely nothing in the
laws about players making themself unnaturally bigger, that was
taken out a couple of seasons ago.
[/quote]
We can discuss wording or we can discuss the brilliant save by
keane, justifiable position is what they have said which it is
if the justification is making yourself bigger to block a shot
[/quote]
Was his arm in the expected position for the footballing action
being performed? I personally think it was, he had just turned
and was moving so his arms were exactly where I'd expect them to
be. Plus we know that PGMOL officials are told to look at
proximity, and this was very close from the ball being kicked to
it hitting the arm.
[/quote]
I’d post the picture but admin approval, his arm were
outstretched before he turned. I do find it interesting that you
think arms down by your side trying to block the ball is
unjustifiable but having them outstretched is fine
#Post#: 97176--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: November 3, 2025, 6:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=7378.msg97174#msg97174
date=1762212482]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97173#msg97173
date=1762210833]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=7378.msg97172#msg97172
date=1762210503]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97164#msg97164
date=1762208495]
> [quote author=aaa link=topic=7378.msg97162#msg97162
date=1762208248]
> We have law of the game, not rules.
>
> People lose credibility on this site if they cannot separate
their emotional feelings as a fan from a constructive summary of
a Referee's performance with examples of incidents.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ball hits an outstretched hand making his body unnaturally
bigger, closing ranks isn't how things improve honesty is
[/quote]
If you are going to criticise the match officials you really
need to get the laws right. There is absolutely nothing in the
laws about players making themself unnaturally bigger, that was
taken out a couple of seasons ago.
[/quote]
We can discuss wording or we can discuss the brilliant save by
keane, justifiable position is what they have said which it is
if the justification is making yourself bigger to block a shot
[/quote]
Was his arm in the expected position for the footballing action
being performed? I personally think it was, he had just turned
and was moving so his arms were exactly where I'd expect them to
be. Plus we know that PGMOL officials are told to look at
proximity, and this was very close from the ball being kicked to
it hitting the arm.
[/quote]
I’d post the picture but admin approval, his arm were
outstretched before he turned. I do find it interesting that you
think arms down by your side trying to block the ball is
unjustifiable but having them outstretched is fine
[/quote]
But that’s where the handball law is specific because it
mentions about deliberate movement of your arm towards the ball
which is why the Tarkowski incident at Leeds was not overturned
by VAR.
I said at the time I didn’t think it was a penalty because he
could hardly do anything else with his arms but in law the
decision was justifiable. Even if you’re leaning in towards a
shot/cross with arms by your side, it could well be given.
#Post#: 97177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: November 3, 2025, 6:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TA_Ref link ---
>
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97175#msg97175
date=1762213346]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=7378.msg97174#msg97174
date=1762212482]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97173#msg97173
date=1762210833]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=7378.msg97172#msg97172
date=1762210503]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97164#msg97164
date=1762208495]
> [quote author=aaa link=topic=7378.msg97162#msg97162
date=1762208248]
> We have law of the game, not rules.
>
> People lose credibility on this site if they cannot separate
their emotional feelings as a fan from a constructive summary of
a Referee's performance with examples of incidents.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ball hits an outstretched hand making his body unnaturally
bigger, closing ranks isn't how things improve honesty is
[/quote]
If you are going to criticise the match officials you really
need to get the laws right. There is absolutely nothing in the
laws about players making themself unnaturally bigger, that was
taken out a couple of seasons ago.
[/quote]
We can discuss wording or we can discuss the brilliant save by
keane, justifiable position is what they have said which it is
if the justification is making yourself bigger to block a shot
[/quote]
Was his arm in the expected position for the footballing action
being performed? I personally think it was, he had just turned
and was moving so his arms were exactly where I'd expect them to
be. Plus we know that PGMOL officials are told to look at
proximity, and this was very close from the ball being kicked to
it hitting the arm.
[/quote]
I’d post the picture but admin approval, his arm were
outstretched before he turned. I do find it interesting that you
think arms down by your side trying to block the ball is
unjustifiable but having them outstretched is fine
[/quote]
But that’s where the handball law is specific because it
mentions about deliberate movement of your arm towards the ball
which is why the Tarkowski incident at Leeds was not overturned
by VAR.
I said at the time I didn’t think it was a penalty because he
could hardly do anything else with his arms but in law the
decision was justifiable. Even if you’re leaning in towards a
shot/cross with arms by your side, it could well be given.
[/quote]See I believe that the wanting to justify every decision
given is a problem that holds the game back in this country,
here his arms are in an unjustifiable position based on a
deliberate movement and it was incorrectly waved away.
You will end up tying yourself up in knots trying to defend both
sides of the same decisions
#Post#: 97180--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: November 4, 2025, 3:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> [quote author=TA_Ref link=topic=7378.msg97176#msg97176
date=1762214554]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97175#msg97175
date=1762213346]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=7378.msg97174#msg97174
date=1762212482]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97173#msg97173
date=1762210833]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=7378.msg97172#msg97172
date=1762210503]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=7378.msg97164#msg97164
date=1762208495]
> [quote author=aaa link=topic=7378.msg97162#msg97162
date=1762208248]
> We have law of the game, not rules.
>
> People lose credibility on this site if they cannot separate
their emotional feelings as a fan from a constructive summary of
a Referee's performance with examples of incidents.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ball hits an outstretched hand making his body unnaturally
bigger, closing ranks isn't how things improve honesty is
[/quote]
If you are going to criticise the match officials you really
need to get the laws right. There is absolutely nothing in the
laws about players making themself unnaturally bigger, that was
taken out a couple of seasons ago.
[/quote]
We can discuss wording or we can discuss the brilliant save by
keane, justifiable position is what they have said which it is
if the justification is making yourself bigger to block a shot
[/quote]
Was his arm in the expected position for the footballing action
being performed? I personally think it was, he had just turned
and was moving so his arms were exactly where I'd expect them to
be. Plus we know that PGMOL officials are told to look at
proximity, and this was very close from the ball being kicked to
it hitting the arm.
[/quote]
I’d post the picture but admin approval, his arm were
outstretched before he turned. I do find it interesting that you
think arms down by your side trying to block the ball is
unjustifiable but having them outstretched is fine
[/quote]
But that’s where the handball law is specific because it
mentions about deliberate movement of your arm towards the ball
which is why the Tarkowski incident at Leeds was not overturned
by VAR.
I said at the time I didn’t think it was a penalty because he
could hardly do anything else with his arms but in law the
decision was justifiable. Even if you’re leaning in towards a
shot/cross with arms by your side, it could well be given.
[/quote]See I believe that the wanting to justify every decision
given is a problem that holds the game back in this country,
here his arms are in an unjustifiable position based on a
deliberate movement and it was incorrectly waved away.
You will end up tying yourself up in knots trying to defend both
sides of the same decisions
[/quote]
When a fast moving game's ruling authorities deem that your arms
are in a natural position if they are behind your back when
running, jumping, blocking or whatever movement you are making,
it is time to have a good laugh and to sympathise with those who
actually have to officiate.
If you walk, do athletics, aerobics, run marathons etc., etc.
your arms are NEVER behind your back because they are used for
balance.
Perhaps we should have Irish Dancing football.
#Post#: 97182--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: Whooshthecat
Date: November 4, 2025, 3:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Red and white persuasion here. It's one of those that looks more
of a pen with all the replay angles.
I always used to ask players 'what would you say if I gave that
one against you'? and I think it falls into that category.
I do think we're in a deliberate phase of only giving
stonewallers for handball in the box and as that means not being
given on the field, it's meaning very little intervention from
VAR.
#Post#: 97184--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sunderland v everton - bramall
DIR By: Adam
Date: November 4, 2025, 4:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Some of the abuse that Tom Bramall is getting this morning on X
is absolutely disgusting. Sunderland fans and also football fans
in general are really letting themselves down on this one. I
can't believe we are still sending vile comments in people's
directions over a footballing matter in 2025, the worrying thing
is part of me can believe it!
Also on a side note it shows the startling lack of knowledge on
LOTG from fans. One of the digital news outlets done a poll last
night and I checked just now to see the results, 77% of people
thought it was a "stonewall penalty"!
I think the fairest thing to say is that it's a typical "dont
reref the game" decision. Whatever the on field referee says is
what's going to be the final decision.
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