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#Post#: 96156--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England: Brentford v Manchester City
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: October 6, 2025, 1:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TA_Ref link ---
>
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=7296.msg96138#msg96138
date=1759747398]
> I wonder if someone can explain to me what goes on in a
referee's mind. At 82:07 the ball goes out of play for a City
throw half way inside the Brentford half. the Brentford manager
kicks the ball back onto the pitch ending up about 10yds in the
pitch. O'Reilly moves to take the free kick and a Brentford
player taps the ball about 5yds in his direction. O'Reilly
walks onto the pitch picks up the ball briefly wipes it in his
shirt and is in position to take the throw at 82:15, throws the
ball in at 82:32 as the referee issues him with a yellow card,
which seems harsh in comparison to what happens regularly. The
throw in is finally taken by Brentford at 82:57 so the referee
has effectively caused an additional delay of 25 seconds.
>
> At 85:39 the ball goes out of play, I thought for a City throw
but it was awarded to Brentford, never mind. A Brentford player
picks up the ball the leaves it for a second Brentford player
who decides he doesn't like that ball, walks 10 yards towards
the City end to pick up the multiball, picks up a towel and
wipes it whist walking 5yds back towards where the ball went
out, is told to move further back and moves a few yards further
back, lines up to take a long run up to throw the ball into the
City area at 86:30.
>
> So it has taken Brentford 51 seconds to take a throw and no
action is taken by the referee whilst City are show a yellow
card after 25 seconds - why?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well your point is a good one but there is one very clear and
obvious answer to this.
Manchester City were winning by 1 goal. The game was still in
the balance and in my opinion if the referee feels like a team
are taking time out the game when winning or trying to hold out
for a draw, then a YC can be expected fairly quickly. If
Brentford want to take nearly a minute to take a throw when
losing then let them. They are wasting their own time more than
anything else.
[/quote]
I would say there are a couple of problems with that answer.
1 If the referee is going to assign motive/intent to the actions
of the team then that has to apply to both teams. Hence he
should question why the Brentford Manager kicked the ball back
into play, it certainly looked a purposeful action. He will
have known that whilst that ball was on the pitch City couldn't
take a quick throw in even if they used one of the other balls.
The most obvious motive to me is that he wanted a few seconds to
allow his players to get in a better defensive formation.
That has a double effect as the City players were then tightly
marked by the time the throw could be taken making it more
difficult for the thrower to find a suitably positioned player,
as well as contributing to about a quarter of the time the ball
was out of play.
2) Supposing City had a long throw expert then you are
effectively saying that because they were in the lead they could
not behave in the same way as Brentford and take time to pile
all their players up into the penalty area before the throw is
taken. So teams that are losing are given an advantage.
I have a second gripe, again essentially minor but one which
makes me wonder about the mindset of referees. Nunes was shown
a yellow car for not retreating for a free kick when the
Brentford plakicked the ball right at him, Junes did not make
any move to stop the ball just stood there.. Don't have a
problem with that as such as it annoys me when players don't
retreat, be they City or otherwise. However not long before
that two Brentford players had stood a similar distance away
from a City free kick blocking off two forward passing routes
and no action was taken about that as City played the ball to
the side. Of course it is commonplace but it is one of the
easier laws for referees to apply, no tule change is needed just
show yellows to anyone who doesn't retreat and keep doing it.
But to book players only when the kicker aims the ball at them
doesn't make sense.
#Post#: 96158--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England: Brentford v Manchester City
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: October 6, 2025, 2:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Microscopist link ---
>
> [quote author=TA_Ref link=topic=7296.msg96139#msg96139
date=1759748615]
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=7296.msg96138#msg96138
date=1759747398]
> I wonder if someone can explain to me what goes on in a
referee's mind. At 82:07 the ball goes out of play for a City
throw half way inside the Brentford half. the Brentford manager
kicks the ball back onto the pitch ending up about 10yds in the
pitch. O'Reilly moves to take the free kick and a Brentford
player taps the ball about 5yds in his direction. O'Reilly
walks onto the pitch picks up the ball briefly wipes it in his
shirt and is in position to take the throw at 82:15, throws the
ball in at 82:32 as the referee issues him with a yellow card,
which seems harsh in comparison to what happens regularly. The
throw in is finally taken by Brentford at 82:57 so the referee
has effectively caused an additional delay of 25 seconds.
>
> At 85:39 the ball goes out of play, I thought for a City throw
but it was awarded to Brentford, never mind. A Brentford player
picks up the ball the leaves it for a second Brentford player
who decides he doesn't like that ball, walks 10 yards towards
the City end to pick up the multiball, picks up a towel and
wipes it whist walking 5yds back towards where the ball went
out, is told to move further back and moves a few yards further
back, lines up to take a long run up to throw the ball into the
City area at 86:30.
>
> So it has taken Brentford 51 seconds to take a throw and no
action is taken by the referee whilst City are show a yellow
card after 25 seconds - why?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well your point is a good one but there is one very clear and
obvious answer to this.
Manchester City were winning by 1 goal. The game was still in
the balance and in my opinion if the referee feels like a team
are taking time out the game when winning or trying to hold out
for a draw, then a YC can be expected fairly quickly. If
Brentford want to take nearly a minute to take a throw when
losing then let them. They are wasting their own time more than
anything else.
[/quote]
I would say there are a couple of problems with that answer.
1 If the referee is going to assign motive/intent to the actions
of the team then that has to apply to both teams. Hence he
should question why the Brentford Manager kicked the ball back
into play, it certainly looked a purposeful action. He will
have known that whilst that ball was on the pitch City couldn't
take a quick throw in even if they used one of the other balls.
The most obvious motive to me is that he wanted a few seconds to
allow his players to get in a better defensive formation.
That has a double effect as the City players were then tightly
marked by the time the throw could be taken making it more
difficult for the thrower to find a suitably positioned player,
as well as contributing to about a quarter of the time the ball
was out of play.
2) Supposing City had a long throw expert then you are
effectively saying that because they were in the lead they could
not behave in the same way as Brentford and take time to pile
all their players up into the penalty area before the throw is
taken. So teams that are losing are given an advantage.
I have a second gripe, again essentially minor but one which
makes me wonder about the mindset of referees. Nunes was shown
a yellow car for not retreating for a free kick when the
Brentford plakicked the ball right at him, Junes did not make
any move to stop the ball just stood there.. Don't have a
problem with that as such as it annoys me when players don't
retreat, be they City or otherwise. However not long before
that two Brentford players had stood a similar distance away
from a City free kick blocking off two forward passing routes
and no action was taken about that as City played the ball to
the side. Of course it is commonplace but it is one of the
easier laws for referees to apply, no tule change is needed just
show yellows to anyone who doesn't retreat and keep doing it.
But to book players only when the kicker aims the ball at them
doesn't make sense.
[/quote]
I appreciate your well explained response and again you raise
some good points. The answer I gave wasn’t a general opinion of
how I’d tackle time wasting, just how I believe referees tackle
time wasting. If there is a way of making the chasing team get
the ball into play faster, then I’m all for it. But as rustyref
said, there would be outrage if a referee booked a player for
DTR when their team are behind.
We’ve already seen the outrage when Darren England cautioned
Dewsbury-Hall in the Merseyside Derby for supposedly taking a
quick free kick (our contributors believe it was for dissent
though who I do believe). If any referee does things like this,
then they’re accused of having no common sense.
So as much as you’re points are valid, I see no possible way how
they could be implemented without the referee coming under
endless scrutiny.
#Post#: 96159--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England: Brentford v Manchester City
DIR By: Claretman
Date: October 6, 2025, 4:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TA_Ref link ---
>
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=7296.msg96156#msg96156
date=1759776373]
> [quote author=TA_Ref link=topic=7296.msg96139#msg96139
date=1759748615]
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=7296.msg96138#msg96138
date=1759747398]
> I wonder if someone can explain to me what goes on in a
referee's mind. At 82:07 the ball goes out of play for a City
throw half way inside the Brentford half. the Brentford manager
kicks the ball back onto the pitch ending up about 10yds in the
pitch. O'Reilly moves to take the free kick and a Brentford
player taps the ball about 5yds in his direction. O'Reilly
walks onto the pitch picks up the ball briefly wipes it in his
shirt and is in position to take the throw at 82:15, throws the
ball in at 82:32 as the referee issues him with a yellow card,
which seems harsh in comparison to what happens regularly. The
throw in is finally taken by Brentford at 82:57 so the referee
has effectively caused an additional delay of 25 seconds.
>
> At 85:39 the ball goes out of play, I thought for a City throw
but it was awarded to Brentford, never mind. A Brentford player
picks up the ball the leaves it for a second Brentford player
who decides he doesn't like that ball, walks 10 yards towards
the City end to pick up the multiball, picks up a towel and
wipes it whist walking 5yds back towards where the ball went
out, is told to move further back and moves a few yards further
back, lines up to take a long run up to throw the ball into the
City area at 86:30.
>
> So it has taken Brentford 51 seconds to take a throw and no
action is taken by the referee whilst City are show a yellow
card after 25 seconds - why?
>
--- End Quote ---
Well your point is a good one but there is one very clear and
obvious answer to this.
Manchester City were winning by 1 goal. The game was still in
the balance and in my opinion if the referee feels like a team
are taking time out the game when winning or trying to hold out
for a draw, then a YC can be expected fairly quickly. If
Brentford want to take nearly a minute to take a throw when
losing then let them. They are wasting their own time more than
anything else.
[/quote]
I would say there are a couple of problems with that answer.
1 If the referee is going to assign motive/intent to the actions
of the team then that has to apply to both teams. Hence he
should question why the Brentford Manager kicked the ball back
into play, it certainly looked a purposeful action. He will
have known that whilst that ball was on the pitch City couldn't
take a quick throw in even if they used one of the other balls.
The most obvious motive to me is that he wanted a few seconds to
allow his players to get in a better defensive formation.
That has a double effect as the City players were then tightly
marked by the time the throw could be taken making it more
difficult for the thrower to find a suitably positioned player,
as well as contributing to about a quarter of the time the ball
was out of play.
2) Supposing City had a long throw expert then you are
effectively saying that because they were in the lead they could
not behave in the same way as Brentford and take time to pile
all their players up into the penalty area before the throw is
taken. So teams that are losing are given an advantage.
I have a second gripe, again essentially minor but one which
makes me wonder about the mindset of referees. Nunes was shown
a yellow car for not retreating for a free kick when the
Brentford plakicked the ball right at him, Junes did not make
any move to stop the ball just stood there.. Don't have a
problem with that as such as it annoys me when players don't
retreat, be they City or otherwise. However not long before
that two Brentford players had stood a similar distance away
from a City free kick blocking off two forward passing routes
and no action was taken about that as City played the ball to
the side. Of course it is commonplace but it is one of the
easier laws for referees to apply, no tule change is needed just
show yellows to anyone who doesn't retreat and keep doing it.
But to book players only when the kicker aims the ball at them
doesn't make sense.
[/quote]
I appreciate your well explained response and again you raise
some good points. The answer I gave wasn’t a general opinion of
how I’d tackle time wasting, just how I believe referees tackle
time wasting. If there is a way of making the chasing team get
the ball into play faster, then I’m all for it. But as rustyref
said, there would be outrage if a referee booked a player for
DTR when their team are behind.
We’ve already seen the outrage when Darren England cautioned
Dewsbury-Hall in the Merseyside Derby for supposedly taking a
quick free kick (our contributors believe it was for dissent
though who I do believe). If any referee does things like this,
then they’re accused of having no common sense.
So as much as you’re points are valid, I see no possible way how
they could be implemented without the referee coming under
endless scrutiny.
[/quote]
Damned if you do and damned if you dont
#Post#: 96167--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England: Brentford v Manchester City
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: October 7, 2025, 5:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Microscopist link ---
>
> I wonder if someone can explain to me what goes on in a
referee's mind. At 82:07 the ball goes out of play for a City
throw half way inside the Brentford half. the Brentford manager
kicks the ball back onto the pitch ending up about 10yds in the
pitch. O'Reilly moves to take the free kick and a Brentford
player taps the ball about 5yds in his direction. O'Reilly
walks onto the pitch picks up the ball briefly wipes it in his
shirt and is in position to take the throw at 82:15, throws the
ball in at 82:32 as the referee issues him with a yellow card,
which seems harsh in comparison to what happens regularly. The
throw in is finally taken by Brentford at 82:57 so the referee
has effectively caused an additional delay of 25 seconds.
>
--- End Quote ---
You have lost me here. Why did Brentford take a Manchester City
Throw?
#Post#: 96168--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England: Brentford v Manchester City
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: October 7, 2025, 5:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=7296.msg96138#msg96138
date=1759747398]
> I wonder if someone can explain to me what goes on in a
referee's mind. At 82:07 the ball goes out of play for a City
throw half way inside the Brentford half. the Brentford manager
kicks the ball back onto the pitch ending up about 10yds in the
pitch. O'Reilly moves to take the free kick and a Brentford
player taps the ball about 5yds in his direction. O'Reilly
walks onto the pitch picks up the ball briefly wipes it in his
shirt and is in position to take the throw at 82:15, throws the
ball in at 82:32 as the referee issues him with a yellow card,
which seems harsh in comparison to what happens regularly. The
throw in is finally taken by Brentford at 82:57 so the referee
has effectively caused an additional delay of 25 seconds.
>
--- End Quote ---
You have lost me here. Why did Brentford take a Manchester City
Throw?
[/quote]
Because after the referee had shown the yellow card to O’Reilly
he gave the throw to Brentford.
#Post#: 96174--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England: Brentford v Manchester City
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: October 7, 2025, 10:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Microscopist link ---
>
> [quote author=Ref Watcher link=topic=7296.msg96167#msg96167
date=1759833037]
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=7296.msg96138#msg96138
date=1759747398]
> I wonder if someone can explain to me what goes on in a
referee's mind. At 82:07 the ball goes out of play for a City
throw half way inside the Brentford half. the Brentford manager
kicks the ball back onto the pitch ending up about 10yds in the
pitch. O'Reilly moves to take the free kick and a Brentford
player taps the ball about 5yds in his direction. O'Reilly
walks onto the pitch picks up the ball briefly wipes it in his
shirt and is in position to take the throw at 82:15, throws the
ball in at 82:32 as the referee issues him with a yellow card,
which seems harsh in comparison to what happens regularly. The
throw in is finally taken by Brentford at 82:57 so the referee
has effectively caused an additional delay of 25 seconds.
>
--- End Quote ---
You have lost me here. Why did Brentford take a Manchester City
Throw?
[/quote]
Because after the referee had shown the yellow card to O’Reilly
he gave the throw to Brentford.
[/quote]
If that is the case, there is a more serious issue here. Hard
to believe a Premier League referee would get such a basic Law
so wrong.
#Post#: 96175--------------------------------------------------
Re: Darren England: Brentford v Manchester City
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: October 7, 2025, 10:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=7296.msg96168#msg96168
date=1759833795]
> [quote author=Ref Watcher link=topic=7296.msg96167#msg96167
date=1759833037]
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=7296.msg96138#msg96138
date=1759747398]
> I wonder if someone can explain to me what goes on in a
referee's mind. At 82:07 the ball goes out of play for a City
throw half way inside the Brentford half. the Brentford manager
kicks the ball back onto the pitch ending up about 10yds in the
pitch. O'Reilly moves to take the free kick and a Brentford
player taps the ball about 5yds in his direction. O'Reilly
walks onto the pitch picks up the ball briefly wipes it in his
shirt and is in position to take the throw at 82:15, throws the
ball in at 82:32 as the referee issues him with a yellow card,
which seems harsh in comparison to what happens regularly. The
throw in is finally taken by Brentford at 82:57 so the referee
has effectively caused an additional delay of 25 seconds.
>
--- End Quote ---
You have lost me here. Why did Brentford take a Manchester City
Throw?
[/quote]
Because after the referee had shown the yellow card to O’Reilly
he gave the throw to Brentford.
[/quote]
If that is the case, there is a more serious issue here. Hard
to believe a Premier League referee would get such a basic Law
so wrong.
[/quote]
Well O’Reilly quickly retook the throw and the referee stopped
the game and gave the throw to Brentford. I’d assumed it came
under the catch-all phrase that goes something like “Any other
foul associated with the throw will result in the throw being
given to the opposition” but I’ll bow to those ‘in the know’ if
they say different.
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