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#Post#: 93318--------------------------------------------------
Women's Euros - VAR offsides
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: July 7, 2025, 4:25 pm
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I have now seen two offside decisions which seem dubious:
England v France - having seen the computer generated image of
the England offside I can't see where they are measuring the
offside from as it seems that both players' relevant body
positions are level.
HTML https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6476025/2025/07/06/alessia-russo-offside-goal-england-france/
Portugal v Italy - they didn't show the computer image of the
Portugal offside during the game but when they showed the replay
they showed an image where the player had already played the
ball from the ground as the ball was clearly off the ground.
Hopefully they didn't use that as the relevant point in time for
making the decision.
#Post#: 93326--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women's Euros - VAR offsides
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: July 8, 2025, 4:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bruntyboy link ---
>
> I have now seen two offside decisions which seem dubious:
>
> England v France - having seen the computer generated image of
the England offside I can't see where they are measuring the
offside from as it seems that both players' relevant body
positions are level.
>
>
HTML https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6476025/2025/07/06/alessia-russo-offside-goal-england-france/
>
> Portugal v Italy - they didn't show the computer image of the
Portugal offside during the game but when they showed the replay
they showed an image where the player had already played the
ball from the ground as the ball was clearly off the ground.
Hopefully they didn't use that as the relevant point in time for
making the decision.
>
--- End Quote ---
I really would wish to agree, however, I have been indoctrinated
to believe that VAR is always correct because it is a digital
procedure and anything digital is always correct.
We are all being driven to use apps, online this, online the
other ad nauseam because it is the only way forward until
---------somebody forgets to switch it on, as at Villa a couple
of seasons ago or, as just happened at Wimbledon in the last
couple of days.
As I have said previously, all VAR does is introduce other
opinions about decisions and it would appear that this is still
the case with a semi-automated system for offside.
Never mind, it is only a game of football and should not result
in any fatalities. Keep watching bruntyboy, I'm sure that we
will have more to talk about in the coming years.
#Post#: 93327--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women's Euros - VAR offsides
DIR By: nemesis
Date: July 8, 2025, 4:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bruntyboy link ---
>
> I have now seen two offside decisions which seem dubious:
>
> England v France - having seen the computer generated image of
the England offside I can't see where they are measuring the
offside from as it seems that both players' relevant body
positions are level.
>
>
HTML https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6476025/2025/07/06/alessia-russo-offside-goal-england-france/
>
> Portugal v Italy - they didn't show the computer image of the
Portugal offside during the game but when they showed the replay
they showed an image where the player had already played the
ball from the ground as the ball was clearly off the ground.
Hopefully they didn't use that as the relevant point in time for
making the decision.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, in that image the ball had already left the foot. However
even when the image shows the ball on the foot it can still be
an issue.
How long is the ball in contact with the foot? Let's estimate a
quarter of a second - I suspect it's longer.
In that time, an average person sprinting can cover 6 or 7 feet.
Given we are giving offsides for millimetres, I personally don't
trust the pictures.
#Post#: 93334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women's Euros - VAR offsides
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: July 8, 2025, 8:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=bruntyboy link=topic=7087.msg93318#msg93318
date=1751923505]
> I have now seen two offside decisions which seem dubious:
>
> England v France - having seen the computer generated image of
the England offside I can't see where they are measuring the
offside from as it seems that both players' relevant body
positions are level.
>
>
HTML https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6476025/2025/07/06/alessia-russo-offside-goal-england-france/
>
> Portugal v Italy - they didn't show the computer image of the
Portugal offside during the game but when they showed the replay
they showed an image where the player had already played the
ball from the ground as the ball was clearly off the ground.
Hopefully they didn't use that as the relevant point in time for
making the decision.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, in that image the ball had already left the foot. However
even when the image shows the ball on the foot it can still be
an issue.
How long is the ball in contact with the foot? Let's estimate a
quarter of a second - I suspect it's longer.
In that time, an average person sprinting can cover 6 or 7 feet.
Given we are giving offsides for millimetres, I personally don't
trust the pictures.
[/quote]
I suspect a quarter of a second is an over-estimate but even if
it is only a tenth of a second and a person could only move a
yard or so in that time, your point still stands. It is an
aspect of VAR offsides that has long concerned me. When it was
done manually, my understanding is that the VAR looked at all
the images and chose the best one for determining the point of
impact. However this still left it at the mercy of the frame
speed of the recording. With the semi-automated technology, the
moment of impact is determined automatically but the same
limitation applies. Given this margin of error, I would like
the position to be judged immediately before the contact with
the ball is made and immediately afterwards. Only if the
attacker is offside in both of those images and in all the
intervening moments should the player be considered to be
offside.
#Post#: 93382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Women's Euros - VAR offsides
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: July 12, 2025, 3:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> [quote author=nemesis link=topic=7087.msg93327#msg93327
date=1751967627]
> [quote author=bruntyboy link=topic=7087.msg93318#msg93318
date=1751923505]
> I have now seen two offside decisions which seem dubious:
>
> England v France - having seen the computer generated image of
the England offside I can't see where they are measuring the
offside from as it seems that both players' relevant body
positions are level.
>
>
HTML https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6476025/2025/07/06/alessia-russo-offside-goal-england-france/
>
> Portugal v Italy - they didn't show the computer image of the
Portugal offside during the game but when they showed the replay
they showed an image where the player had already played the
ball from the ground as the ball was clearly off the ground.
Hopefully they didn't use that as the relevant point in time for
making the decision.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, in that image the ball had already left the foot. However
even when the image shows the ball on the foot it can still be
an issue.
How long is the ball in contact with the foot? Let's estimate a
quarter of a second - I suspect it's longer.
In that time, an average person sprinting can cover 6 or 7 feet.
Given we are giving offsides for millimetres, I personally don't
trust the pictures.
[/quote]
I suspect a quarter of a second is an over-estimate but even if
it is only a tenth of a second and a person could only move a
yard or so in that time, your point still stands. It is an
aspect of VAR offsides that has long concerned me. When it was
done manually, my understanding is that the VAR looked at all
the images and chose the best one for determining the point of
impact. However this still left it at the mercy of the frame
speed of the recording. With the semi-automated technology, the
moment of impact is determined automatically but the same
limitation applies. Given this margin of error, I would like
the position to be judged immediately before the contact with
the ball is made and immediately afterwards. Only if the
attacker is offside in both of those images and in all the
intervening moments should the player be considered to be
offside.
[/quote]
You’re correct - using the traditional VAR offside process, they
have to pick a frame.
But under the semi-automated VAR, I believe the system
automatically identifies the ball kick moment and VAR confirms
it. Maybe it’s still possible to get it wrong, and perhaps it
still has the frame rate potential issues…
I dislike UEFA’s opaque approach. It’s always been the
patronising way of refereeing associations, but most
countries/leagues have moved on a bit… not UEFA!
At least when the PL get SAOT (or whatever the acronym is) then
we’ll understand it better.
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