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#Post#: 92571--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: Semi Retired
Date: May 25, 2025, 3:57 pm
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The complaint comes across as needing to have a scapegoat for
why Villa missed out on Champions League football. With 3 and a
half thousand minutes of football played over the season, of
course it all comes down to this one split decision, made by a
fully fledged Select Group referee, who is on his third season
on the list. And to be honest, while I think we can all
recognise it’s probably not a foul in retrospect, I can
understand why he made the call on first viewing, and I’m not
convinced VAR would have bailed him out if the on field decision
was foul. I’m also unconvinced other, more experienced referees
wouldn’t have made the same call on field.
It also deflects from the fact Villa were second best today. Of
course, referees are judged on decisions and I’m sure Mr Bramall
is beating himself up on it, but I do think the furore is
somewhat overstated. I think you can justify the decision in
law, and I think on first viewing at full speed it’d look worse.
I bet Mr Bramall is wishing his season had ended on a high on
Wednesday night! Hopefully he’ll be given a good chance next
season; he’s seemed pretty decent all in all this season and I’d
suggest he deserves a decent run of games, despite what happened
here.
#Post#: 92572--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: May 25, 2025, 3:59 pm
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--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=7028.msg92562#msg92562
date=1748199584]
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=7028.msg92558#msg92558
date=1748197786]
> Apparently Villa are putting in a formal complaint to PGMOL
about Bramall and his 'lack of experience'.
>
> Reaching Forest levels of pettiness that is. Blaming anything
but themselves.
>
--- End Quote ---
Hopefully when they have calmed down a bit they may reflect and
decide not to, here is a villa fan hoping.
[/quote]
It appears they are to complain about the appointment of Bramall
to the game, sour grapes in my mind human error is part of the
game, perceived in this case.
I see our “ friend” mr Hackett says Oliver should have been
appointed to the game which really shows how much nonsense he
talks.
[/quote]
It also makes you wonder if Hackett had a scooby doo what he was
doing when he wrecked the PGMOL under his tutelage, particularly
with appointments.
#Post#: 92573--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: May 25, 2025, 4:33 pm
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--- Quote from: Semi Retired link ---
>
> The complaint comes across as needing to have a scapegoat for
why Villa missed out on Champions League football.
>
--- End Quote ---
1 player mistake is swept under the carpet before anyone can say
a word about it
1 referee mistake is talked about for days, weeks and maybe
months and all of a sudden, the conspiracy theorists are out in
full force.
#Post#: 92574--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: Shy Talk
Date: May 25, 2025, 4:36 pm
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Having just seen the incident a couple of times in slow motion,
I have to say I believe Mr Bramall was 100% correct. At the
instant the Villa player first makes contact with the ball it is
grounded and the keeper has both hands on it.
The fumble seems to be caused by the ball being kicked out of
the keeper's hands.
#Post#: 92578--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: PhiltheRef
Date: May 25, 2025, 5:06 pm
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It appears that at least part of the Villa complaint relates to
Mr Brammall's perceived lack of PL experience.
Could they maybe explain how, other than Refereeing games, they
expect officials to gain experience?
#Post#: 92579--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: NRUReferee
Date: May 25, 2025, 5:07 pm
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--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> I dont see what good making a complaint does, the game wont be
replayed as there is no error in law.
>
--- End Quote ---
If anything - it could be described as an error in Officiating
Mechanics
#Post#: 92580--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: May 25, 2025, 5:08 pm
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I’ve watched the YouTube highlights again and I’ve looked at the
law and this is what I think of the incident.
Yes, Tom Bramall is too quick to blow his whistle as it forbids
VAR to check it. However, having said this, it is important to
remember that even if he didn’t blow initially, his on field
call would’ve been foul and no goal.
Now it’s all about referring to the LOTG (seen below). The
phrase ‘touching it with any part of the hands or arms’ is the
key point here. For me, there is too much doubt from the
pictures that I have seen that clearly shows the Man Utd
goalkeeper not having an arm on the ball. Another major issue
with this incident is that the Utd keeper does initially fumble
the ball (classing as a rebound?) and then it’s virtually
impossible to tell whether he’s holding the ball when Rogers
kicks the ball.
As a result of this, I don’t think it would’ve met the threshold
for a clear and obvious error and I think Tom Bramall’s on field
decision would have stood.
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the
hand(s) when: the ball is between the hands or between the hand
and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with
any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from
the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save.
#Post#: 92581--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: olliebcafc
Date: May 25, 2025, 6:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Emery was fairly animated in the game (maybe understandably) but
tbf seemed to accept the decision in his post match. A certain
former Villa manager might not have been as forgiving (Dean
Smith)
I don’t blame Bramall for his on field assessment as it looks in
full speed like the goalkeeper is in control. His only error is
blowing too early, which as others have said may not have
happened if he was managed better throughout the season. Less
practice delaying the whistle means more chance of a mistake
#Post#: 92582--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: May 25, 2025, 6:40 pm
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No mention that at the end of the first half he let Villa have
their attack and then blew for half time just as United had made
a pass for another one on one play.
#Post#: 92584--------------------------------------------------
Re: Man United - Aston Villa. Tom Bramall
DIR By: dave26
Date: May 25, 2025, 8:06 pm
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I admit that the Rogers disallowed goal was incorrect but when
you see the attached picture I can fully understand why Bramhall
gave that decision albeit incorrectly in a split second and at
speed his only fault is blowing the whistle when he did which
negates the ability for VAR to intervene if that picture is
anything to go by I’m inclined to think that their is no reason
to delay the whistle so in my opinion it’s not the huge error
that people seem to view it as - costly for Villa? yes
unfortunate yes
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