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#Post#: 92227--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: May 18, 2025, 6:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Failed Ref link ---
>
> Martin Samuel in the Sunday Times has loaded up on Atwell as
if to justify his earlier reservations. Part of his logic
regarding the DOGSO decision was that Haarland is a top striker
and in effect you should take account of that. He was quite
capable of lifting the ball over the keeper and then hitting the
ball on target on an angle. Presumably if Harry Maguire was in
the same situation, you argue that he was unlikely to have a
shot at goal, therefore that is not DOGSO.
> There are several sports writers in the Times who I find
irritate me, none of whom are comparable to Brian Glanville who
has sadly passed away. The Sunday Times has a tribute in the
paper today and I can only lament the decline in journalistic
standards.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've just read Martin Samuel's piece in The Sunday Times. It's
pretty savage and, to my way of thinking, far too much an ad
hominem and personal attack to be good objective journalism. It
as much diminishes the author as the subject. I agree Brian
Glanville was peerless and I miss Henry Winter's writing too.
#Post#: 92228--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: May 18, 2025, 6:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Henry Winter was very good but I haven't read much of his output
of late so I cannot comment on his latest contributions but
occasionally I hear him on Sky and think he's a voice of sanity,
a rare breed.
#Post#: 92232--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: Claretman
Date: May 18, 2025, 8:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
>
> I also believe that it was not an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity, but a possible / likely one. The attacker was
chasing a through ball and did not have it under control. He
still had a lot to do to score. Henderson still had the right
to challenge / block the ball as a defender (just not as a
goal-keeper). The right outcome should have been a direct free
kick and a yellow card.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I think it was an obvious goal scoring opportunity, whether it
was the keeper that handled the or an outfield player handled it
here is immaterial. On the basis many think it was OGSO i feel
it was subjective so Attwell should have been sent to the screen
but as we dont hear the audio it may have been that he fed back
to var that he didnt think it was OGSO if the keeper handled it
outside the area.
I guess if he had been sent to the screen he would have had one
hell of difficult explanation to give to the crowd ( am i right
in believing he was wired up for such purposes )
#Post#: 92233--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: ben
Date: May 18, 2025, 8:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think he was. It wasn’t obvious on TV but think he gave an
explanation for the offside disallowed goal.
#Post#: 92234--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: May 18, 2025, 8:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> [quote author=Failed Ref link=topic=7012.msg92188#msg92188
date=1747506798]
> Keith Hackett says Henderson should have stayed on the pitch.
Dale Johnson disagrees. I think there is a general divergence of
opinion which suggests that it wasn't a clear and obvious error
in missing a DOGSO. The AR did let the team down.
> It is worth remembering regarding the penalty, getting a
slight touch on the ball doesn't necessarily negate the award of
a penalty. This was one of those cases imho.
> Well done Palace. City were not at their best and their
performance summed up their season. Should have done better.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think i know who of thise two i would believe to be correct.
I believe this was Another case of trying to keep 11 players on
the pitch for each side.
[/quote]
As an obviously biased Palace fan, I wasn't going to comment
further, but I think your last comment admirably sums up the
Henderson handball incident, in other words it was a case of
wanting to keep it 11 v 11 if at all possible on this showcase
occasion. What if Henderson had been sent off for what would
have been a questionable award, and City had then cantered to a
win against 10 men, as they surely would have done. Think back a
few days and Oliver Langford apparently 'ruining' the playoff
game at Bristol City. Would Stuart Attwell not have similarly
'ruined' the Final yesterday if he had been advised to reach for
his red card? Some of us are old enough to remember Peter Willis
40 years ago, but imho, his Cup Final performance was actually
better than (say) Brian Hill three years later. But who
remembers Brian in the 1988 Final now? Of course, nothing like
this happens in the PL does it? Except of course it does, and
how many times have we been scathing of referees when they have
not given a second yellow when one was clearly due? 11 v 11 was
how it ended after 100 minutes and more of endeavour and
excitement, and that's how I want to remember the game. Sorry to
rabbit on.
#Post#: 92239--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: May 18, 2025, 10:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=7012.msg92189#msg92189
date=1747507596]
> [quote author=Failed Ref link=topic=7012.msg92188#msg92188
date=1747506798]
> Keith Hackett says Henderson should have stayed on the pitch.
Dale Johnson disagrees. I think there is a general divergence of
opinion which suggests that it wasn't a clear and obvious error
in missing a DOGSO. The AR did let the team down.
> It is worth remembering regarding the penalty, getting a
slight touch on the ball doesn't necessarily negate the award of
a penalty. This was one of those cases imho.
> Well done Palace. City were not at their best and their
performance summed up their season. Should have done better.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think i know who of thise two i would believe to be correct.
I believe this was Another case of trying to keep 11 players on
the pitch for each side.
[/quote]
As an obviously biased Palace fan, I wasn't going to comment
further, but I think your last comment admirably sums up the
Henderson handball incident, in other words it was a case of
wanting to keep it 11 v 11 if at all possible on this showcase
occasion. What if Henderson had been sent off for what would
have been a questionable award, and City had then cantered to a
win against 10 men, as they surely would have done. Think back a
few days and Oliver Langford apparently 'ruining' the playoff
game at Bristol City. Would Stuart Attwell not have similarly
'ruined' the Final yesterday if he had been advised to reach for
his red card? Some of us are old enough to remember Peter Willis
40 years ago, but imho, his Cup Final performance was actually
better than (say) Brian Hill three years later. But who
remembers Brian in the 1988 Final now? Of course, nothing like
this happens in the PL does it? Except of course it does, and
how many times have we been scathing of referees when they have
not given a second yellow when one was clearly due? 11 v 11 was
how it ended after 100 minutes and more of endeavour and
excitement, and that's how I want to remember the game. Sorry to
rabbit on.
[/quote]
Enjoy your memories, I have enough over the last few years not
to grudge others. You had a plan, City didn't have the guile to
break it down even with a penalty so can't complain. You had
some luck but most teams, however good, need that.
Having said that the debate on the Henderson handball transcends
the result and raises serious questions about the use of VAR in
my eyes.
#Post#: 92258--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: Leggy
Date: May 19, 2025, 5:17 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ben link ---
>
> I think he was. It wasn’t obvious on TV but think he gave an
explanation for the offside disallowed goal.
>
--- End Quote ---
He did, but it did not come out very clearly on the TV (mostly
due to Place fans understandably booing!).
#Post#: 92259--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: Leggy
Date: May 19, 2025, 5:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=Failed Ref link=topic=7012.msg92221#msg92221
date=1747563535]
> Martin Samuel in the Sunday Times has loaded up on Atwell as
if to justify his earlier reservations. Part of his logic
regarding the DOGSO decision was that Haarland is a top striker
and in effect you should take account of that. He was quite
capable of lifting the ball over the keeper and then hitting the
ball on target on an angle. Presumably if Harry Maguire was in
the same situation, you argue that he was unlikely to have a
shot at goal, therefore that is not DOGSO.
> There are several sports writers in the Times who I find
irritate me, none of whom are comparable to Brian Glanville who
has sadly passed away. The Sunday Times has a tribute in the
paper today and I can only lament the decline in journalistic
standards.
>
--- End Quote ---
I've just read Martin Samuel's piece in The Sunday Times. It's
pretty savage and, to my way of thinking, far too much an ad
hominem and personal attack to be good objective journalism. It
as much diminishes the author as the subject. I agree Brian
Glanville was peerless and I miss Henry Winter's writing too.
[/quote]
The great Brian Glanville passed away one day before the FA Cup
final aged 93. A great writer and only three months after we
lost Patrick Barclay. Sad.
#Post#: 92266--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: Boz
Date: May 19, 2025, 8:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I was out of the country and wearing my City hat, prescient
enough not to try and find somewhere to watch the game. Have
only seen brief highlights and tend to the view that Henderson
should have seen red and the City penalty was generous. Sounds
like the better team won on the day.
One query; the stats show 7 fouls awarded against each team, yet
Mr Atwell issued 5YCs against City and 1 for Palace. Were most
of the Man City cards for things other than fouls?
#Post#: 92269--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stuart Attwell - Crystal Palace v Man City (FA Cup Final)
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: May 19, 2025, 9:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ref Watch was unanimous in their view it was a DOGSO. Unable to
use footage, they showed an image and made a compelling point
that the ball only went away from goal because Henderson took it
off Haarland's foot which led to the ball changing direction. A
persuasive case.
They did agree that the penalty was correctly awarded.
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