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#Post#: 90504--------------------------------------------------
Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: Adam
Date: April 6, 2025, 8:09 am
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Missed PK against Kelleher, another Donohue error on VAR.
Start has felt very messy and frantic in general, a few fouls
missed by Kav I think
#Post#: 90506--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: ajb95
Date: April 6, 2025, 9:24 am
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Yes definite pen and I think Liverpool got the benefit of all
the 50-50 calls. Thankfully Fulham are now winning so no bearing
on the game
#Post#: 90513--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: April 6, 2025, 11:46 am
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Terrible decision by VAR not to give a penalty against Kelleher.
I know I’ve been very critical of Donohue in recent times but I
hope now my opinion of his poor decision making is now starting
to become apparent.
Two big goofs in a week is unacceptable.
#Post#: 90519--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: Pm2
Date: April 6, 2025, 12:17 pm
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--- Quote from: TheThingFromLewes link ---
>
> Terrible decision by VAR not to give a penalty against
Kelleher.
>
> I know I’ve been very critical of Donohue in recent times but
I hope now my opinion of his poor decision making is now
starting to become apparent.
>
> Two big goofs in a week is unacceptable.
>
--- End Quote ---
Donohue has become very unreliable since that ashley young
incident.
#Post#: 90525--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: April 6, 2025, 2:45 pm
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Silly question regarding the Kelleher incident. PGMOL have said
that it was a coming together. I accept that the keeper played
the Fulham player but it was after the ball had been played. The
"fouled" player had released the ball before contact and by
doing so was unable to take further part in the move. The
actions of the keeper didn't prevent the move advancing. Indeed
he was also out of the picture! Not sure how the LOTG apply here
especially these days!
#Post#: 90527--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: Semi Retired
Date: April 6, 2025, 3:00 pm
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To be honest, I think here it’s one the on field referee should
be getting right, and whether VAR can get involved will depend a
lot on how the referee describes the incident.
It’s a penalty. But the referee seems to have a fairly clear
view of it, and if he’s described it as a coming together and
been clear he’s seen the contact made by the goalkeeper, it’s
going to prove quite difficult for the VAR to get involved, as
that becomes much more subjective.
I think the challenge for this one and the midweek incident are
where to set the bar with referees call. Both are clear on field
mistakes. But for both, VAR has refused to get involved, backing
the on field decision. Which frustrates fans further (what’s the
point in VAR?). But this will be the difficulty in football,
where so many decisions are subjective and two referees can have
different views.
For me, the most obvious solution is to lower the bar for asking
the referee to review but also being much clearer that the
referee can stick with their on field call, something referees
seem unwilling/unable to do. But put the emphasis back on the
referee to make the final call based on their own
interpretation.
I really think football can learn a thing or ten from rugby
also. By no means is TMO perfect, but I think the communication
between TMO and referee seems clearer, and the referees are able
to say “I’d like to see that again”. Football moves so fast,
it’s natural split second decisions are going to be difficult to
nail all the time, but we’re asking VAR to make a call on it
independently, rather than having an open discussion with
referee on what they have seen, giving a bit of feedback,
discussing whether another view is worthwhile etc.
#Post#: 90528--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: Craven
Date: April 6, 2025, 3:25 pm
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Was at the game, and overall thought Kavanagh did quite well,
albeit not a particularly tough assignment.
As for the penalty not given, it was at the opposite end of the
pitch from my seat, but looked like an obvious foul from where I
was. Because of the distance, though, I thought I could be wrong
and would reserve judgement until home and observing on TV.
After now seeing it clearly, it’s blatant. If a keeper dives at
the feet of an attacker, misses the ball, and makes contact with
the player, there can be no other decision than penalty. I blame
Kavanagh more than VAR on this. He was looking straight at it.
Just give it. It’s an easy one.
Someone above alludes to Liverpool getting all the 50-50
decisions. I, and those around me, felt this too whilst at the
game. It’s an interesting one this, and something that
supporters of the Premier League’s less glamorous clubs, the
likes of Fulham, Bournemouth, Southampton, Ipswich etc, just
come to accept over time. When you’re playing the big boys, it
always seems inevitable this will happen. I genuinely don’t
think the refs do it on purpose, it’s just a subliminal,
unconscious bias. To be honest, if I was a referee at that
level, I think I’d be guilty of it too. I’ve always believed it
happens, and nothing I’ve seen over the last few years has done
anything to change my mind.
#Post#: 90552--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: April 7, 2025, 10:01 am
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VAR has gone off the boil in recent matches… certainly some
silly decisions creeping in and some work to do to raise the
standards at Shockley Park, although if truth be told, they
can’t get much lower!
#Post#: 90568--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: Craven
Date: April 7, 2025, 11:11 am
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--- Quote from: TheThingFromLewes link ---
>
> VAR has gone off the boil in recent matches… certainly some
silly decisions creeping in and some work to do to raise the
standards at Shockley Park, although if truth be told, they
can’t get much lower!
>
--- End Quote ---
It appears to me there’s some very muddled thinking around VAR
currently. There are so many variables and parameters being set,
that I think the guys are almost double guessing themselves.
There seems to be a real lack of clarity in their thought
process, and to be honest, they’re not necessarily to blame. Is
it referees call? Is the bar high enough? Is it this, is it
that! I’ve not spoken to, or read online, anyone who doesn’t
think that the Liverpool keeper fouled Periera. It was as
blatant as it gets. I’m convinced that Matt Donohue also thinks
it was a foul, yet he’s got so much of this other guff whirring
around in his head, that in the end he does nothing.
Something needs to change, and change fast. We’ve got these guys
on big bucks, supposedly the cream of the crop, watching clear
and obvious SFP (Tarkowski), or clear and obvious fouls in the
box (Fulham) on a big screen, in slow motion, from a million
different angles, yet failing to act. It’s embarrassing now, in
fact it’s pathetic. But as I’ve just said, these guys are
working to so many confused parameters, I almost feel sorry for
them. Sort it out, Howard, it’s ruining the sport we love.
#Post#: 90579--------------------------------------------------
Re: Fulham v Liverpool: C.Kavanagh (VAR M.Donohue)
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: April 7, 2025, 12:10 pm
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Dale Johnson has had his say on the possible penalty overturn at
Everton: Lewis-Skelly challenge on Harrison
"Verdict: This is why supporters find it so hard to understand
VAR. It's an incredibly soft penalty, and the Premier League's
Key Match Incidents (KMI) Panel will vote that it shouldn't have
been awarded. Yet the panel will also say it's not a "clear and
obvious" error, so the VAR was correct not to intervene.
So we have a penalty that shouldn't have been awarded, but
shouldn't be canceled because of the constraints of VAR
protocol." Hummm!
Regarding the Kelleher incident Johnson says:
"Kelleher's challenge on Pereira, however, showed how referees
in all leagues make different judgements with goalkeepers and
how they come for the ball.
An unavoidable, natural, coming together in a genuine attempt to
play the ball isn't likely to be punished with a penalty, even
if the goalkeeper collides into the attacker. The goalkeeper
usually has to be reckless to give away a spot kick.
Verdict: While the laws don't distinguish between challenges
made inside the area, or give goalkeepers the right to make a
careless challenge, in practice they are looked at differently.
As goalkeepers are expected to throw themselves at the ball,
it's accepted there will be times when there's connection with
an opponent after the ball has gone.
For the VAR to get involved, it would have to be clearly
reckless -- a challenge in which the keeper had no chance of
winning, or in a way that was most likely to cause a foul.
Many may feel Kelleher did cross this line, but it's unlikely to
be seen as a missed intervention by the KMI Panel."
One person doesn't think it is a clear penalty and on RefWatch
although DG felt it was, the others were hardly convinced it was
wrong. Football refereeing is about opinions and not all people
agree on everything. I have already expressed the view that
Kelleher didn't have a meaningful impact on the game as Pereira
had already passed the ball and was never prevented from playing
it again.
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