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#Post#: 88854--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: Claretman
Date: February 23, 2025, 10:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: HChip link ---
>
> I think there are some referees in SG1 that are taking up
valuable spots for promising referees. Referees such as
Robinson, Bond, Salisbury should go down to SG2, obviously
getting the occasional PL games, and instead promote people such
as Webb, for example. I also think Lewis Smith is edging closer
to an SG1 spot as he is developing wonderfully.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if Graham Scott retires at the end of
the season, which could free up a spot.
>
--- End Quote ---
Once you have reached SG1 and SG2 it isnt just as simple as
saying you should downgrade officials, employment law comes into
the equation.
Very few if any have lost SG1 status on sub standard performance
issues.
#Post#: 88856--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: February 23, 2025, 11:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> [quote author=HChip link=topic=6735.msg88784#msg88784
date=1740225326]
> I think there are some referees in SG1 that are taking up
valuable spots for promising referees. Referees such as
Robinson, Bond, Salisbury should go down to SG2, obviously
getting the occasional PL games, and instead promote people such
as Webb, for example. I also think Lewis Smith is edging closer
to an SG1 spot as he is developing wonderfully.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if Graham Scott retires at the end of
the season, which could free up a spot.
>
--- End Quote ---
Once you have reached SG1 and SG2 it isnt just as simple as
saying you should downgrade officials, employment law comes into
the equation.
Very few if any have lost SG1 status on sub standard performance
issues.
[/quote]
To add, Grandad Walton fired the starting gun for age to be no
barrier in terms of your employment within SG1.
#Post#: 88861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: Beacon
Date: February 23, 2025, 12:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I always thought an unlucky referee was Terry Heilbron who would
imo have made a good premier league ref, but he was lucky to
have referreed a league cup final having not officiated at all
in the Premier league. I am sure that won’t happen again!!
#Post#: 88865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: February 23, 2025, 12:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Beacon link ---
>
> I always thought an unlucky referee was Terry Heilbron who
would imo have made a good premier league ref, but he was lucky
to have referreed a league cup final having not officiated at
all in the Premier league. I am sure that won’t happen again!!
>
--- End Quote ---
Would loved to have seen Jim Parker on a premier league match if
he was around in this era…
It would be “cardnage”!
Here is a clip of him straight red carding two players, but in
those days, the second yellow seemingly never came out?
HTML https://youtu.be/Sxq0drjT1xY?si=b3dyRhg0ppPhmwB9
#Post#: 88877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: rustyref
Date: February 23, 2025, 5:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: HChip link ---
>
> I think there are some referees in SG1 that are taking up
valuable spots for promising referees. Referees such as
Robinson, Bond, Salisbury should go down to SG2, obviously
getting the occasional PL games, and instead promote people such
as Webb, for example. I also think Lewis Smith is edging closer
to an SG1 spot as he is developing wonderfully.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if Graham Scott retires at the end of
the season, which could free up a spot.
>
--- End Quote ---
As others have said, you can't just demote employees without
going through an extremely vigorous HR process. I've made
plenty of mistakes at work, a couple of which have resulted in
fairly major IT outages, but have never received so much as a
reprimand for it. When it is an absolute dereliction of duty I
suspect they'll invoke HR processes, and the only one that
immediately springs to mind in that category would be Darren
England on VAR in the Spurs vs Liverpool game, but even that
isn't enough for demotion.
I actually think the main bottleneck is at SG2. The whole point
of SG2 was a development ground for SG1 referees, yet there are
lots of referees at that level that will never make it to SG1.
Simpson, Langford, Ward, Davies, Eltringham, Linington,
Whitestone, and until recently Stroud, have been at that level
for years but are never going to get promoted. Not doubting
their abilities as referees, but I'd like to see a rule that if
you haven't been promoted to SG1 in 5 years you go back down to
EFL. It can't really be both a development ground for promising
referees and a retirement home for those that aren't quite good
enough, but granted that approach would also have HR and
employment law challenges
#Post#: 88878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: nemesis
Date: February 23, 2025, 6:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=HChip link=topic=6735.msg88784#msg88784
date=1740225326]
> I think there are some referees in SG1 that are taking up
valuable spots for promising referees. Referees such as
Robinson, Bond, Salisbury should go down to SG2, obviously
getting the occasional PL games, and instead promote people such
as Webb, for example. I also think Lewis Smith is edging closer
to an SG1 spot as he is developing wonderfully.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if Graham Scott retires at the end of
the season, which could free up a spot.
>
--- End Quote ---
As others have said, you can't just demote employees without
going through an extremely vigorous HR process. I've made
plenty of mistakes at work, a couple of which have resulted in
fairly major IT outages, but have never received so much as a
reprimand for it. When it is an absolute dereliction of duty I
suspect they'll invoke HR processes, and the only one that
immediately springs to mind in that category would be Darren
England on VAR in the Spurs vs Liverpool game, but even that
isn't enough for demotion.
I actually think the main bottleneck is at SG2. The whole point
of SG2 was a development ground for SG1 referees, yet there are
lots of referees at that level that will never make it to SG1.
Simpson, Langford, Ward, Davies, Eltringham, Linington,
Whitestone, and until recently Stroud, have been at that level
for years but are never going to get promoted. Not doubting
their abilities as referees, but I'd like to see a rule that if
you haven't been promoted to SG1 in 5 years you go back down to
EFL. It can't really be both a development ground for promising
referees and a retirement home for those that aren't quite good
enough, but granted that approach would also have HR and
employment law challenges
[/quote]
SG1 and Premier League are not the be all and end all of
football. The rest of football does not just exist as
subservient to the Premier League. Those in the Championship
deserve to have the best officials available not just those who
are would be Premier League referees. It's not as if this
pinnacle of refereeing is that great anyway.
Would you like to see clubs that don't get promoted in 5 years
relegated back to the EFL ? Of course not !
#Post#: 88879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: rustyref
Date: February 23, 2025, 6:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=6735.msg88877#msg88877
date=1740354751]
> [quote author=HChip link=topic=6735.msg88784#msg88784
date=1740225326]
> I think there are some referees in SG1 that are taking up
valuable spots for promising referees. Referees such as
Robinson, Bond, Salisbury should go down to SG2, obviously
getting the occasional PL games, and instead promote people such
as Webb, for example. I also think Lewis Smith is edging closer
to an SG1 spot as he is developing wonderfully.
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if Graham Scott retires at the end of
the season, which could free up a spot.
>
--- End Quote ---
As others have said, you can't just demote employees without
going through an extremely vigorous HR process. I've made
plenty of mistakes at work, a couple of which have resulted in
fairly major IT outages, but have never received so much as a
reprimand for it. When it is an absolute dereliction of duty I
suspect they'll invoke HR processes, and the only one that
immediately springs to mind in that category would be Darren
England on VAR in the Spurs vs Liverpool game, but even that
isn't enough for demotion.
I actually think the main bottleneck is at SG2. The whole point
of SG2 was a development ground for SG1 referees, yet there are
lots of referees at that level that will never make it to SG1.
Simpson, Langford, Ward, Davies, Eltringham, Linington,
Whitestone, and until recently Stroud, have been at that level
for years but are never going to get promoted. Not doubting
their abilities as referees, but I'd like to see a rule that if
you haven't been promoted to SG1 in 5 years you go back down to
EFL. It can't really be both a development ground for promising
referees and a retirement home for those that aren't quite good
enough, but granted that approach would also have HR and
employment law challenges
[/quote]
SG1 and Premier League are not the be all and end all of
football. The rest of football does not just exist as
subservient to the Premier League. Those in the Championship
deserve to have the best officials available not just those who
are would be Premier League referees. It's not as if this
pinnacle of refereeing is that great anyway.
Would you like to see clubs that don't get promoted in 5 years
relegated back to the EFL ? Of course not !
[/quote]
Don't disagree with that per se, but that is absolutely why SG2
was created, the fact can't be disputed. Yes there needs to be
some protection for the Championship clubs to ensure they have
officials of sufficient standard, but equally I'm sure you would
say that some of the names I listed aren't pulling up any trees
at that level, and some are the subject of regular complaints on
here.
I support a Championship team, I'd rather have the up and coming
referees officiate us than those that are just going through the
motions. Lewis Smith and Josh Smith have been vastly better
than any other referees we have had this season.
#Post#: 88883--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: AndyF
Date: February 24, 2025, 2:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I feel they have made a rod for their own back by attaching SG1
and SG2 to the Premier League and Championship so robustly with
only the occasional fixture covered outside of this.
If the purpose of SG2 is support the best up-and-coming referees
developing them for SG1 then it should operate across more
clearly all four divisions, with more inexperienced referees
joining earlier and building up their appointments. We now have
the development group doing something similar because SG2
doesn't do this.
The more experienced referees that are not moving to SG1 should
then be appointed on merit across the Championship and FL. It
would then reduce the same Championship teams getting the same
SG2 refs 4 or 5 times a season (especially when they often get
them in all Championship cup ties too)
#Post#: 88887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 24, 2025, 3:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I actually saw Andy Davies, for the first time, at Charlton v
Exeter last Saturday. He gave a competent enough performance but
no better than others who regularly officiate in that tier and
he showed very little which would elevate him above the other
'toilers' who regularly ply their trade at The Valley and other
League One and League Two grounds. A country mile off SG1 status
I would say.
#Post#: 89177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Unlucky referees
DIR By: NRUReferee
Date: March 2, 2025, 12:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Just to expand this slightly - the incompetence from the powers
that be that resulted in Alan Wiley never getting his FIFA Badge
were legendary
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