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#Post#: 88338--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: February 12, 2025, 4:52 pm
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I missed the first 25 minutes so don't know what the temperature
of the game was in the early stages. The flurry of YCs in the
first half after I started watching looked justified to me.
Those sanctions in the first half appeared to have had the
desired effect as, unless I missed some, I can only recall 1 YC
in the second half to Jones shortly after he came on before
those deplorable scenes at the end.
I noticed with one or two of the cautions when players queried
them (but not aggressively), he took time to explain the
decision which also had the benefit of slowing things down if
the game was getting too hectic.
Didn't think the Bradley foul was SPA given where it happened on
the field so no 2nd YC was correct.
As has been said by others this season, judging what is and what
isn't a foul seems to be getting increasingly difficult for
referees. I tend to agree that Oliver may have got a few wrong
but some of the comments that he was terrible are way ott in my
view. I would say he did reasonably well in a far from easy
game in the 65-70 minutes I saw.
#Post#: 88340--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: Adam
Date: February 12, 2025, 5:04 pm
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--- Quote from: Jtd508110 link ---
>
> When I saw Oliver was appointed to this fixture, I had a
feeling he would struggle tonight. It was always going to be a
tough match for any official, but sadly, I think was way off the
level required.
>
> Inconsistent foul detection, playing advantages when there was
not really much to be gained and a few key errors. He commanded
no respect from the players of both sides and I can't really
disagree with comments from the TNT Sports pundits about his
performance tonight.
>
> I would agree with the sending off of Curtis Jones (probably
should have been a straight red card for Violent Conduct). Not
sure what to make on sending Doucoure off - is celebrating to
opposition fans a sanctionable offence? I don't know the
circumstances behind Slot's red card but I suspect Oliver had
lost his head at this point.
>
> I hope Taylor or Brooks are appointed to the fixture at
Anfield - it certainly has the making of another feisty contest.
>
--- End Quote ---
Brooks would be absolutely perfect for a game like this, it
requires a less pally yet as equally respected referee and
Brooks is this!
#Post#: 88341--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: TA_Ref
Date: February 12, 2025, 5:13 pm
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--- Quote from: redman2014 link ---
>
>
> Oliver was out of his depth when he was with Gianluigi Buffon
at the centre of the confrontation, receiving a red card for
verbal abuse.
>
> Some of the comments that suggest he was in control are
laughable.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
So in your opinion, verbally attacking the referee and pushing
him back and undermining his authority were not justifiable
reasons to send Buffon off? He was not of his depth that night.
He sanctioned abusive behaviour which is a red card.
In terms of ‘he was in control tonight’, I didn’t see any fights
on the pitch during the 90 minutes. I didn’t see 7 or 8 players
surround Oliver at a time. I think many frustrations from
players (and managers) were unjustified at time. Yes, the
tension was sky high but a referee does not go out of his way to
upset the players. If players dive and act the way they did then
unfortunately it’s just another complication that Oliver had to
deal with. He will get some free kicks wrong. Why? Because he’s
a human being like all of us. He has one look and in a split
second makes one judgement. Managers on the touch line now have
their iPads and watch every incident back and then they complain
to the 4th official and they complain to the referee because
they have absolutely no understanding of the difficulties that
refereeing poses. Tonight was a far from easy game and Oliver
was far far from terrible.
#Post#: 88342--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: February 12, 2025, 5:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Adam link ---
>
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=6702.msg88328#msg88328
date=1739398366]
> I'm going to try and go balanced through this
>
>
HTML https://x.com/Watch_LFC/status/1889764152773640611?t=VwXTZKPg05Om2YOV7_oOVA&s=19
>
> That's the 1st decision of the game with big implications,
that's a clear dive and therefore is factually an error.
>
> Following on from that I havent seen it but I believe
especially Conor Bradley as well as Alexis Macalister were both
lucky to not be sent off for multiple bookable offences which
weren't penalised, which are also errors if is the case.
>
>
HTML https://x.com/AnythingLFC_/status/1889792853439623564?t=II-jJl69rH_c9WuofWW1Xw&s=19
> In addition we saw what is a clear ankle contact on Mo Salah
which should've been a free kick and therefore would have not
led to the Everton equaliser.
>
> Finally, the scenes at the end were disgusting, and I
completely disagree with whoever said that Liverpool should
receive the brunt of the punishment for the actions, when it was
clearly Doucoure who encited the situation. Also re Slot's red
card, can't obviously tell but it seems to have been decided
from Oliver after the handshake rather than after the words they
had, which is strange, however of course we can't be sure.
>
> Oliver was the centre of attention tonight from what I've seen
and it sounds another cagey performance from him this season.
Regardless of whether he was good or not, he needs time out of
the spotlight as that's 2 much talked about performances in his
last 3 games. As I've put above he made a number of key errors,
so it was not a great performance, however I haven't seen enough
to judge how good/bad he was.
>
--- End Quote ---
[/quote]
I think you have been very fair in terms of being objective but
I respectfully disagree on a few things.
There is a lot of cause and effect stuff going on there being
assumed. That supposed foul on Salah (looks a foul to me alright
but is not at all clear from that wide angle, Oliver well
positioned) was 3 minutes before the goal (according to the
post) who knows whether Everton would have scored if it was
given? They may well still have gotten an opportunity and in any
case, there was plenty of time for Liverpool to defend.
The first clip, I agree that is not a foul. However, Liverpool
defended the free kick poorly and Everton scored. Michael Oliver
didn't score. Leggy made a very good post recently about how a
referee is blamed for a small (or large) mistake leading to a
goal but the players actions afterwards are ignored and all the
focus is on the referee.
I have very little doubt about Slot's red card. The handshake
was aggresive and Oliver knows everything is being recorded, and
I can't imagine he would just decide to make it up. Slot
shouldn't be saying anything at all to Oliver on the pitch,
other than maybe 'good game' or 'all the best'. He will have a
chance to follow up later with any grievances. There is no time
or allowance for a debriefing on the pitch and I wish referees
would be far far stricter on this in general. They are not, so
if Oliver saw fit to go red - I'd wager it was well warranted.
I don't think any of those are KMI errors as they are assessed
(unsure how incorrect free kicks in the build up to a goal work,
I'd appreciate if those more knowledgeable than I can inform). I
think as many have said this was a lose/lose game for Oliver and
many others would have lost control. Some will go your way some
won't and in games like this there will be mistakes. Players,
fans and managers would be better served focusing on their own
team's errors rather than blaming the referee - but we've all
grown to expect nothing less.
On your last point, I am in full agreement. It was very unwise
to appoint Oliver to this inevitably difficult game. He is now
thrust back into the headlines and however strong he
unquestionably is, week on week of intense focus is bad for any
referee.
#Post#: 88343--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: February 12, 2025, 5:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: redman2014 link ---
>
>
> Oliver was out of his depth when he was with Gianluigi Buffon
at the centre of the confrontation, receiving a red card for
verbal abuse.
>
>
--- End Quote ---
I respect and welcome the wonderful variance of opinions on
here. However, I think you are profoundly wrong.
I'm not sure I have ever disagreed with a post on this site than
this one. It is straining my belief that any fair minded person
who reviews that situation thinks Oliver is the one in the
wrong, as your post implies, not Buffon who behaved
disgracefully by any measure.
I'd suggest fans of one or the the other teams might be best
served to sleep on it before posting as we can all let emotions
get the better of us.
#Post#: 88344--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: February 12, 2025, 5:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: redman2014 link ---
>
> Comparable to his performance in the Champions League second
leg when he refereed the second leg of the quarter-final between
Real Madrid and Juventus.
>
> Oliver was out of his depth when he was with Gianluigi Buffon
at the centre of the confrontation, receiving a red card for
verbal abuse.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have to say that I think 110% that this post is way off the
mark, and I profoundly disagree with this.
I have never, ever seen an elite official claimed to be out of
his depth. He wouldn’t be at this level of progression and in
UEFA if there was any doubt that he would be out of his depth in
a competitive match.
Yes, in the past, we have jested that some officials have been
awarded FIFA badges which are not appropriate, however Oliver
has worked his way up the ladder with aplomb and with
distinction, and to have the suggestion that he is out of his
depth is frankly preposterous.
We need more officials like Oliver, Brooks and Barrott who
have/will do, propelled themselves into a real pool of talent.
If we don’t, the game as we know is dead and so will domestic
football as we know it.
#Post#: 88346--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: Ryanellis
Date: February 13, 2025, 1:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Irishref1985 link ---
>
> There was 13 seconds left when the two Everton players
collided and Michael decides to play a further three minutes..
Incredible timekeeping...
>
--- End Quote ---
Incorrect. The clash of heads happened in the 93rd min meaning
there was 2 mins left. The game didn’t restart until the 95th
min
#Post#: 88347--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: February 13, 2025, 2:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
In retrospect I would have loved to see Gillett referee this
game!
PGMOL have made a rod for their own back by allowing more
physical contact and ignoring the LOTG. Players are therefore
more likely to push the boundaries back. Players and coaches
aren't helping by trying to deceive officials, for example
diving or falling over too easily.
All this inevitably leads to more inconsistency which frustrates
everyone. Am I being naive, but why aren't the LOTG enforced? Is
it a fear of too many stoppages?
#Post#: 88350--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: February 13, 2025, 3:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Failed Ref link ---
>
> With the players trying to gain every advantage, legally or
otherwise, it's a difficult game to referee without killing it.
A couple of odd decisions, including the foul that led to
Everton's goal, but carding is a dark art. Some are mandatory
and then you think how can that not be a yellow but which falls
into the descretionay category.
> Salah is rather good though in the 91st minute he gets hacked
down and Oliver just waves play on presumably because Salah went
down easily. It's incidents like this which make criticism of a
referee's foul detection difficult. I am surprised these days
how many fouls, imho I should add, are no longer penalised.
>
--- End Quote ---
There is no such thing as a discretionary yellow card merely
differences of opinion over some incidents as to whether they
are yellow offences.
#Post#: 88351--------------------------------------------------
Re: Michael Oliver Everton V Liverpool
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: February 13, 2025, 3:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I always thought Arne Slot was a reasonable and courteous
person, certainly that is how he has appeared hitherto. Of
course, it's relatively easy and straightforward to be
reasonable and courteous when you are winning. Adversity, be it
bad luck or perceived injustice brings a real test of character
which, it seems, Slot failed last night. I, for one, am very
disappointed.
I totally agree with the posters who say that a more liberal
interpretation of the Laws can bring chaos if the players do not
respond in the right spirit. Last night was always going to be a
febrile atmosphere and it required some good old fashioned
strict refereeing which would then be supported and endorsed by
the PGMOL. There are some matches where everything has to be
clamped down upon, I suggest last night's was one such and I
don't think any referee, taking the more liberal or managerial
approach, could have hoped to succeed.
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