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#Post#: 87847--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: aaa Date: January 28, 2025, 4:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87846#msg87846
date=1738101849]
Hate to be negative, but Oliver and England are both very lucky
to be involved this weekend. I thought the red card decision vs
Arsenal was an absolute howler. The abuse was of course
disgusting and of course I understand mistakes are part of
football.
But it’s not the first time this has happened with these two,
and there is seemingly a lack of accountability.
For anyone unaware, the FA have overturned Lewis-Skelly’s red
card, meaning the decision was wrong, as everyone could see. Yet
Oliver receives two huge clashes as a reward, rather than giving
them to more deserving names. And England also receives a nice
game. This just doesn’t sit right with me.
Anyway I hope they can recover quickly, we all know how good
Oliver is when he’s at it and I see good potential in England
too. I just don’t think referees should be rewarded with such
appointments after being involved in a decision described by
various pundits as ‘the worst they’ve ever seen’.
Good luck to all refs as always. I hope this came across
respectfully.
[/quote]
Please let us be factual here. Your quote is way off the mark.
The FA did not overturned it. The Independent Regulatory
Commission upheld their claim of wrongful dismissal. Fact. The
people on this panel could be ex-players, ex-coaches and
ex-referees.
It would be good to separate the PGMOL from the FA when it comes
to appointments of Officials on the National List and above, not
the FA. The FA have zero input whatsoever.
#Post#: 87848--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: kthomas22 Date: January 28, 2025, 4:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=aaa link=topic=6663.msg87847#msg87847
date=1738102514]
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87846#msg87846
date=1738101849]
Hate to be negative, but Oliver and England are both very lucky
to be involved this weekend. I thought the red card decision vs
Arsenal was an absolute howler. The abuse was of course
disgusting and of course I understand mistakes are part of
football.
But it’s not the first time this has happened with these two,
and there is seemingly a lack of accountability.
For anyone unaware, the FA have overturned Lewis-Skelly’s red
card, meaning the decision was wrong, as everyone could see. Yet
Oliver receives two huge clashes as a reward, rather than giving
them to more deserving names. And England also receives a nice
game. This just doesn’t sit right with me.
Anyway I hope they can recover quickly, we all know how good
Oliver is when he’s at it and I see good potential in England
too. I just don’t think referees should be rewarded with such
appointments after being involved in a decision described by
various pundits as ‘the worst they’ve ever seen’.
Good luck to all refs as always. I hope this came across
respectfully.
[/quote]
Please let us be factual here. Your quote is way off the mark.
The FA did not overturned it. The Independent Regulatory
Commission upheld their claim of wrongful dismissal. Fact. The
people one this panel could be ex-players, ex-coaches and
ex-referees.
It would be good to separate the PGMOL from the FA when it comes
to appointments of Officials on the National List and above, not
the FA. The FA have zero input whatsoever.
[/quote]
You’re right, it wasn’t the FA but the Independent Regulatory
Commission, my mistake.
Not sure that error makes my comment ‘way off the mark’ though…
#Post#: 87849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: rustyref Date: January 28, 2025, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87848#msg87848
date=1738103410]
[quote author=aaa link=topic=6663.msg87847#msg87847
date=1738102514]
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87846#msg87846
date=1738101849]
Hate to be negative, but Oliver and England are both very lucky
to be involved this weekend. I thought the red card decision vs
Arsenal was an absolute howler. The abuse was of course
disgusting and of course I understand mistakes are part of
football.
But it’s not the first time this has happened with these two,
and there is seemingly a lack of accountability.
For anyone unaware, the FA have overturned Lewis-Skelly’s red
card, meaning the decision was wrong, as everyone could see. Yet
Oliver receives two huge clashes as a reward, rather than giving
them to more deserving names. And England also receives a nice
game. This just doesn’t sit right with me.
Anyway I hope they can recover quickly, we all know how good
Oliver is when he’s at it and I see good potential in England
too. I just don’t think referees should be rewarded with such
appointments after being involved in a decision described by
various pundits as ‘the worst they’ve ever seen’.
Good luck to all refs as always. I hope this came across
respectfully.
[/quote]
Please let us be factual here. Your quote is way off the mark.
The FA did not overturned it. The Independent Regulatory
Commission upheld their claim of wrongful dismissal. Fact. The
people one this panel could be ex-players, ex-coaches and
ex-referees.
It would be good to separate the PGMOL from the FA when it comes
to appointments of Officials on the National List and above, not
the FA. The FA have zero input whatsoever.
[/quote]
You’re right, it wasn’t the FA but the Independent Regulatory
Commission, my mistake.
Not sure that error makes my comment ‘way off the mark’ though…
[/quote]
It really does. It wasn't the FA, it was a disciplinary
committee made up of 3 ex-players or ex-managers, who will have
no qualifications in the laws of the game. It is no different
to an appeal committee made up of ex-convicts ruling that the
original judge and jury's decision was incorrect on the basis
that they have experience of crime. We are the only country
that have this absolutely ludicrous appeal system.
Plus, the red card has not been overturned, rather the
suspension has been cancelled, the sending off will remain on
the player's record.
#Post#: 87850--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: TheThingFromLewes Date: January 28, 2025, 4:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87846#msg87846
date=1738101849]
Hate to be negative, but Oliver and England are both very lucky
to be involved this weekend. I thought the red card decision vs
Arsenal was an absolute howler. The abuse was of course
disgusting and of course I understand mistakes are part of
football.
But it’s not the first time this has happened with these two,
and there is seemingly a lack of accountability.
For anyone unaware, the FA have overturned Lewis-Skelly’s red
card, meaning the decision was wrong, as everyone could see. Yet
Oliver receives two huge clashes as a reward, rather than giving
them to more deserving names. And England also receives a nice
game. This just doesn’t sit right with me.
Anyway I hope they can recover quickly, we all know how good
Oliver is when he’s at it and I see good potential in England
too. I just don’t think referees should be rewarded with such
appointments after being involved in a decision described by
various pundits as ‘the worst they’ve ever seen’.
Good luck to all refs as always. I hope this came across
respectfully.
[/quote]
The second big game you refer to, the Merseyside derby… Oliver
was already pencilled in for this game before it was called off
due to the weather. So I would not call this as being “rewarded
with a huge clash” due to his last game and his error.
#Post#: 87851--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: TheThingFromLewes Date: January 28, 2025, 5:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=aaa link=topic=6663.msg87847#msg87847
date=1738102514]
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87846#msg87846
date=1738101849]
Hate to be negative, but Oliver and England are both very lucky
to be involved this weekend. I thought the red card decision vs
Arsenal was an absolute howler. The abuse was of course
disgusting and of course I understand mistakes are part of
football.
But it’s not the first time this has happened with these two,
and there is seemingly a lack of accountability.
For anyone unaware, the FA have overturned Lewis-Skelly’s red
card, meaning the decision was wrong, as everyone could see. Yet
Oliver receives two huge clashes as a reward, rather than giving
them to more deserving names. And England also receives a nice
game. This just doesn’t sit right with me.
Anyway I hope they can recover quickly, we all know how good
Oliver is when he’s at it and I see good potential in England
too. I just don’t think referees should be rewarded with such
appointments after being involved in a decision described by
various pundits as ‘the worst they’ve ever seen’.
Good luck to all refs as always. I hope this came across
respectfully.
[/quote]
Please let us be factual here. Your quote is way off the mark.
The FA did not overturned it. The Independent Regulatory
Commission upheld their claim of wrongful dismissal. Fact. The
people on this panel could be ex-players, ex-coaches and
ex-referees.
It would be good to separate the PGMOL from the FA when it comes
to appointments of Officials on the National List and above, not
the FA. The FA have zero input whatsoever.
[/quote]
I think the only involvement the FA can come in with punishment
is if there is a mass punch up or brawl, poor behaviour towards
a match official etc etc.
I’m sure there is more but these are the main issues they can
deal with on the field.
#Post#: 87852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: kthomas22 Date: January 28, 2025, 5:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=rustyref link=topic=6663.msg87849#msg87849
date=1738104040]
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87848#msg87848
date=1738103410]
[quote author=aaa link=topic=6663.msg87847#msg87847
date=1738102514]
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87846#msg87846
date=1738101849]
Hate to be negative, but Oliver and England are both very lucky
to be involved this weekend. I thought the red card decision vs
Arsenal was an absolute howler. The abuse was of course
disgusting and of course I understand mistakes are part of
football.
But it’s not the first time this has happened with these two,
and there is seemingly a lack of accountability.
For anyone unaware, the FA have overturned Lewis-Skelly’s red
card, meaning the decision was wrong, as everyone could see. Yet
Oliver receives two huge clashes as a reward, rather than giving
them to more deserving names. And England also receives a nice
game. This just doesn’t sit right with me.
Anyway I hope they can recover quickly, we all know how good
Oliver is when he’s at it and I see good potential in England
too. I just don’t think referees should be rewarded with such
appointments after being involved in a decision described by
various pundits as ‘the worst they’ve ever seen’.
Good luck to all refs as always. I hope this came across
respectfully.
[/quote]
Please let us be factual here. Your quote is way off the mark.
The FA did not overturned it. The Independent Regulatory
Commission upheld their claim of wrongful dismissal. Fact. The
people one this panel could be ex-players, ex-coaches and
ex-referees.
It would be good to separate the PGMOL from the FA when it comes
to appointments of Officials on the National List and above, not
the FA. The FA have zero input whatsoever.
[/quote]
You’re right, it wasn’t the FA but the Independent Regulatory
Commission, my mistake.
Not sure that error makes my comment ‘way off the mark’ though…
[/quote]
It really does. It wasn't the FA, it was a disciplinary
committee made up of 3 ex-players or ex-managers, who will have
no qualifications in the laws of the game. It is no different
to an appeal committee made up of ex-convicts ruling that the
original judge and jury's decision was incorrect on the basis
that they have experience of crime. We are the only country
that have this absolutely ludicrous appeal system.
Plus, the red card has not been overturned, rather the
suspension has been cancelled, the sending off will remain on
the player's record.
[/quote]
But the point of my original post is nothing to do with WHO made
the decision to rescind the suspension, simply the fact that it
was rescinded. And whether you agree with the system or not they
came to the correct conclusion on this occasion.
This conversation has steered towards whether it was the FA or
the independent commission. You rightfully mentioned that it was
the commission, and I thank you for correcting me, but this
isn’t the issue at hand.
The fact remains that the decision was painfully incorrect, VAR
was wrong to uphold it on the day, yet Oliver and England are
both awarded good appointments the following week.
Even if Oliver was penciled in for the initial clash, there are
more deserving names right now. He could easily have been
replaced.
I hope I’m not coming across as one to just bash referees as
this isn’t my intention, but the PGMOL sweeping things under the
carpet and their evident lack of accountability is a big reason
why the standards in this country are viewed as sub-par by many
fans, in my opinion.
#Post#: 87853--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: RCG Date: January 28, 2025, 11:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If a star player misses a penalty are they automatically
dropped? If a player is sent off do they serve more time than
the ban imposed? If a goalkeeper allows the ball under them do
they miss the next game?
You get my point!
#Post#: 87859--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: kthomas22 Date: January 29, 2025, 5:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=RCG link=topic=6663.msg87853#msg87853
date=1738128515]
If a star player misses a penalty are they automatically
dropped? If a player is sent off do they serve more time than
the ban imposed? If a goalkeeper allows the ball under them do
they miss the next game?
You get my point!
[/quote]
To continue your analogy, if there are players more deserving of
a start on the bench, then yes the manager usually rotates…
#Post#: 87861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: RefGod Date: January 29, 2025, 8:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87852#msg87852
date=1738106197]
[quote author=rustyref link=topic=6663.msg87849#msg87849
date=1738104040]
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87848#msg87848
date=1738103410]
[quote author=aaa link=topic=6663.msg87847#msg87847
date=1738102514]
[quote author=kthomas22 link=topic=6663.msg87846#msg87846
date=1738101849]
Hate to be negative, but Oliver and England are both very lucky
to be involved this weekend. I thought the red card decision vs
Arsenal was an absolute howler. The abuse was of course
disgusting and of course I understand mistakes are part of
football.
But it’s not the first time this has happened with these two,
and there is seemingly a lack of accountability.
For anyone unaware, the FA have overturned Lewis-Skelly’s red
card, meaning the decision was wrong, as everyone could see. Yet
Oliver receives two huge clashes as a reward, rather than giving
them to more deserving names. And England also receives a nice
game. This just doesn’t sit right with me.
Anyway I hope they can recover quickly, we all know how good
Oliver is when he’s at it and I see good potential in England
too. I just don’t think referees should be rewarded with such
appointments after being involved in a decision described by
various pundits as ‘the worst they’ve ever seen’.
Good luck to all refs as always. I hope this came across
respectfully.
[/quote]
Please let us be factual here. Your quote is way off the mark.
The FA did not overturned it. The Independent Regulatory
Commission upheld their claim of wrongful dismissal. Fact. The
people one this panel could be ex-players, ex-coaches and
ex-referees.
It would be good to separate the PGMOL from the FA when it comes
to appointments of Officials on the National List and above, not
the FA. The FA have zero input whatsoever.
[/quote]
You’re right, it wasn’t the FA but the Independent Regulatory
Commission, my mistake.
Not sure that error makes my comment ‘way off the mark’ though…
[/quote]
It really does. It wasn't the FA, it was a disciplinary
committee made up of 3 ex-players or ex-managers, who will have
no qualifications in the laws of the game. It is no different
to an appeal committee made up of ex-convicts ruling that the
original judge and jury's decision was incorrect on the basis
that they have experience of crime. We are the only country
that have this absolutely ludicrous appeal system.
Plus, the red card has not been overturned, rather the
suspension has been cancelled, the sending off will remain on
the player's record.
[/quote]
But the point of my original post is nothing to do with WHO made
the decision to rescind the suspension, simply the fact that it
was rescinded. And whether you agree with the system or not they
came to the correct conclusion on this occasion.
This conversation has steered towards whether it was the FA or
the independent commission. You rightfully mentioned that it was
the commission, and I thank you for correcting me, but this
isn’t the issue at hand.
The fact remains that the decision was painfully incorrect, VAR
was wrong to uphold it on the day, yet Oliver and England are
both awarded good appointments the following week.
Even if Oliver was penciled in for the initial clash, there are
more deserving names right now. He could easily have been
replaced.
I hope I’m not coming across as one to just bash referees as
this isn’t my intention, but the PGMOL sweeping things under the
carpet and their evident lack of accountability is a big reason
why the standards in this country are viewed as sub-par by many
fans, in my opinion.
[/quote]
I disagree it was painfully incorrect.
My view was a caution for RP however, recent training brought
light on these challenges and it doesn't surprise me that
Michael took the decision he did. Skelly wasn't remotely going
for the ball and had the option to haul down his opponent via
shirt pull. People often do not recognise the speed and
intensity the elite game is played. If players now reconsider
this type of awful challenge then that's a win for refereeing
and the game itself.
#Post#: 87865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sat 1st – Wed 12th FEB 2025
By: Whistleblower Date: January 29, 2025, 9:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Appointments should not be made as a reward or punishment but by
ensuring that the most difficult matches go to the referees who,
over the season, have shown themselves to be the best. One
error, and I accept that Michael's Oliver's giving of a red card
was an error, should not undermine this process. Compared to
some of his colleagues it seems to me that Oliver makes
relatively few serious errors so statistically he's unlikely to
make another one soon so, on that basis alone, appoint him.
*****************************************************
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