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#Post#: 6207--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
DIR By: patrickj2211
Date: March 24, 2019, 8:42 am
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I can see the arguments on this discussion. The referee should
have got this decision correct, especially at his level. But
then i do agree with Jherbert that every referee has and still
make big mistakes. There are reasons why the referee got this
wrong and i am sure he will look at those reasons. To say that
he is not up to being a referee at that level because of this is
bang out of order IMO. One mistake doesn't justify that. Oh well
good debate
#Post#: 6208--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
DIR By: Jherbert
Date: March 24, 2019, 9:08 am
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Victor Kassai - ReaL Madrid v Bayern Munich (lots of errors)
Manchester City v Shakhtar (Sterling penalty) A great referee
and still is now so everyone makes them.
#Post#: 6210--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 24, 2019, 9:27 am
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--- Quote from: Jherbert link ---
>
> Victor Kassai - ReaL Madrid v Bayern Munich (lots of errors)
Manchester City v Shakhtar (Sterling penalty) A great referee
and still is now so everyone makes them.
>
--- End Quote ---
None of those errors got defended though, even by me who is his
#1 supporter and a friend of his!
You were trying to defend the indefensible when it cannot be
defended. A point which you conveniently have completely
ignored!
#Post#: 6226--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
DIR By: kelxref
Date: March 25, 2019, 4:21 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=kelxref link=topic=658.msg6205#msg6205
date=1553421184]
> Whilst I agree this was a bad error, I do have some sympathy
with the referee and think UEFA is partly to blame for this.
Ruddy Buquet works with VAR every week in his national league,
he works with AARs in Europa League games, so whilst I
understand we can’t yet have VAR in all Euro qualifiers, I don’t
understand why UEFA is not appointing AARs for these games.
After all they did appoint them for the less important Nations
league games earlier in the season, and I think their presence
in the game in Sofia would probably have prevented this error
occuring.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree one or the other would have prevented this & I further
agree that one or the other should have been used but I'm sorry
- he is a FIFA referee and as such should be perfectly capable
of making these decisions correctly on his own, no VAR or AAR to
hold his hand & make them for him. If he can no longer make
decisions on his own then it goes a huge way to proving a point
made by many of the detractors to VAR that it will stop in
particular less competent referees from making decisions because
VAR will make the decisions for them.
As for calling the Nations League less important I beg to
differ, I sincerely doubt the teams that qualified for the Euros
via it found it any less important, in fact I think they will
have found it a vital lifeline & probably more important than
the qualifiers. If only the MLSz had done what the fans asked
and appointed Rossi the first time round instead of subjecting
the Hungary NT to 10 months of Leekens, Hungary would have
potentially qualified during the tournament, instead of messing
that up & the qualifiers! It might seem unimportant to the big
teams who always qualify for these things but it's certainly not
seen as such by the smaller nations where it is potentially the
only route to take part in a tournament.
[/quote]
I fully accept I was wrong to imply that the Nations Leagues was
less important than the qualifiers. What I should have said was
that by not appointing AARs, UEFA is implying the qualifiers are
less important than the Nations League. This error could have
been avoided and Montenegro will feel justifiably unhappy if it
causes them to avoid qualifying.
On your other point, I accept that an absence of VAR or AARs
should not be used to excuse any referees' lack of competence.
However, this kind of incident using a 3 official system does
seem to me to lead to a potential "blind spot" for the officials
(i.e. AR running parallel to the penalty area line and the
referee favouring the left side through his diagonal). I would
be very interested to know what formal advice is given to
referees on how to adjust their positioning when AARs are
present versus when they are not. I noted on Saturday when
watching Michael Oliver (who is regularly using the 3 official
system in the Premier League) refereeing Sweden v Romania, how
he moved towards the right hand side when attacks built up from
that side of the pitch. I felt he would certainly have been in a
better position to make the correct call if a similar incident
to one in the Bulgarian v Montenegro game had occurred in his
match.
#Post#: 6230--------------------------------------------------
Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 25, 2019, 8:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: kelxref link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=658.msg6206#msg6206
date=1553429837]
> [quote author=kelxref link=topic=658.msg6205#msg6205
date=1553421184]
> Whilst I agree this was a bad error, I do have some sympathy
with the referee and think UEFA is partly to blame for this.
Ruddy Buquet works with VAR every week in his national league,
he works with AARs in Europa League games, so whilst I
understand we can’t yet have VAR in all Euro qualifiers, I don’t
understand why UEFA is not appointing AARs for these games.
After all they did appoint them for the less important Nations
league games earlier in the season, and I think their presence
in the game in Sofia would probably have prevented this error
occuring.
>
--- End Quote ---
Agree one or the other would have prevented this & I further
agree that one or the other should have been used but I'm sorry
- he is a FIFA referee and as such should be perfectly capable
of making these decisions correctly on his own, no VAR or AAR to
hold his hand & make them for him. If he can no longer make
decisions on his own then it goes a huge way to proving a point
made by many of the detractors to VAR that it will stop in
particular less competent referees from making decisions because
VAR will make the decisions for them.
As for calling the Nations League less important I beg to
differ, I sincerely doubt the teams that qualified for the Euros
via it found it any less important, in fact I think they will
have found it a vital lifeline & probably more important than
the qualifiers. If only the MLSz had done what the fans asked
and appointed Rossi the first time round instead of subjecting
the Hungary NT to 10 months of Leekens, Hungary would have
potentially qualified during the tournament, instead of messing
that up & the qualifiers! It might seem unimportant to the big
teams who always qualify for these things but it's certainly not
seen as such by the smaller nations where it is potentially the
only route to take part in a tournament.
[/quote]
I fully accept I was wrong to imply that the Nations Leagues was
less important than the qualifiers. What I should have said was
that by not appointing AARs, UEFA is implying the qualifiers are
less important than the Nations League. This error could have
been avoided and Montenegro will feel justifiably unhappy if it
causes them to avoid qualifying.
On your other point, I accept that an absence of VAR or AARs
should not be used to excuse any referees' lack of competence.
However, this kind of incident using a 3 official system does
seem to me to lead to a potential "blind spot" for the officials
(i.e. AR running parallel to the penalty area line and the
referee favouring the left side through his diagonal). I would
be very interested to know what formal advice is given to
referees on how to adjust their positioning when AARs are
present versus when they are not. I noted on Saturday when
watching Michael Oliver (who is regularly using the 3 official
system in the Premier League) refereeing Sweden v Romania, how
he moved towards the right hand side when attacks built up from
that side of the pitch. I felt he would certainly have been in a
better position to make the correct call if a similar incident
to one in the Bulgarian v Montenegro game had occurred in his
match.
[/quote]
I think the lack of AARs being appointed is not so much that
UEFA feel the qualifiers less important but is more down to the
fact they are now phasing them out to replace them with VAR. I
can't remember if they appointed AARs to the 2016 qualifiers -
too long ago! I do think, UEFA have erred there & I think we
actually agree on that!
Your 2nd point, interesting point regarding positioning. I could
be petty and argue that Oliver is a very competent official but
as I'm in a good mood today I won't! ;D Hungary were one of
the test nations for AAR and continue to use them in the
domestic league but the match officials in the main there manage
to adapt their positioning without too much fuss in the 3
official system (Kassai & Bognár anyway, Vad is debatable). I
suspect positioning was on Buquet's assessors Report as a point
of learning!!
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