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       #Post#: 6207--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
   DIR By: patrickj2211
       Date: March 24, 2019, 8:42 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I can see the arguments on this discussion. The referee should
       have got this decision correct, especially at his level. But
       then i do agree with Jherbert that every referee has and still
       make big mistakes. There are reasons why the referee got this
       wrong and i am sure he will look at those reasons. To say that
       he is not up to being a referee at that level because of this is
       bang out of order IMO. One mistake doesn't justify that. Oh well
       good debate
       #Post#: 6208--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
   DIR By: Jherbert
       Date: March 24, 2019, 9:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Victor Kassai - ReaL Madrid v Bayern Munich (lots of errors)
       Manchester City v Shakhtar (Sterling penalty) A great referee
       and still is now so everyone makes them.
       #Post#: 6210--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: March 24, 2019, 9:27 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Jherbert link ---
       >
       > Victor Kassai - ReaL Madrid v Bayern Munich (lots of errors)
       Manchester City v Shakhtar (Sterling penalty) A great referee
       and still is now so everyone makes them.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       None of those errors got defended though, even by me who is his
       #1 supporter and a friend of his!
       You were trying to defend the indefensible when it cannot be
       defended. A point which you conveniently have completely
       ignored!
       #Post#: 6226--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
   DIR By: kelxref
       Date: March 25, 2019, 4:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: bmb link ---
       >
       > [quote author=kelxref link=topic=658.msg6205#msg6205
       date=1553421184]
       > Whilst I agree this was a bad error, I do have some sympathy
       with the referee and think UEFA is partly to blame for this.
       Ruddy Buquet works with VAR every week in his national league,
       he works with AARs in Europa League games, so whilst I
       understand we can’t yet have VAR in all Euro qualifiers, I don’t
       understand why UEFA is not appointing AARs for these games.
       After all they did appoint them for the less important Nations
       league games earlier in the season, and I think their presence
       in the game in Sofia would probably have prevented this error
       occuring.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Agree one or the other would have prevented this & I further
       agree that one or the other should have been used but I'm sorry
       - he is a FIFA referee and as such should be perfectly capable
       of making these decisions correctly on his own, no VAR or AAR to
       hold his hand & make them for him.  If he can no longer make
       decisions on his own then it goes a huge way to proving a point
       made by many of the detractors to VAR that it will stop in
       particular less competent referees from making decisions because
       VAR will make the decisions for them.
       As for calling the Nations League less important I beg to
       differ, I sincerely doubt the teams that qualified for the Euros
       via it found it any less important, in fact I think they will
       have found it a vital lifeline & probably more important than
       the qualifiers. If only the MLSz had done what the fans asked
       and appointed Rossi the first time round instead of subjecting
       the Hungary NT to 10 months of Leekens, Hungary would have
       potentially qualified during the tournament, instead of messing
       that up & the qualifiers! It might seem unimportant to the big
       teams who always qualify for these things but it's certainly not
       seen as such by the smaller nations where it is potentially the
       only route to take part in a tournament.
       [/quote]
       I fully accept I was wrong to imply that the Nations Leagues was
       less important than the qualifiers. What I should have said was
       that by not appointing AARs, UEFA is implying the qualifiers are
       less important than the Nations League. This error could have
       been avoided and Montenegro will feel justifiably unhappy if it
       causes them to avoid qualifying.
       On your other point, I accept that an absence of VAR or AARs
       should not be used to excuse any referees' lack of competence.
       However, this kind of incident using a 3 official system does
       seem to me to lead to a potential "blind spot" for the officials
       (i.e. AR running parallel to the penalty area line and the
       referee favouring the left side through his diagonal). I would
       be very interested to know what formal advice is given to
       referees on how to adjust their positioning when AARs are
       present versus when they are not. I noted on Saturday when
       watching Michael Oliver (who is regularly using the 3 official
       system in the Premier League) refereeing Sweden v Romania, how
       he moved towards the right hand side when attacks built up from
       that side of the pitch. I felt he would certainly have been in a
       better position to make the correct call if a similar incident
       to one in the Bulgarian v Montenegro game had occurred in his
       match.
       
       #Post#: 6230--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Bulgaria v Montenegro - Ruddy Buquet
   DIR By: bmb
       Date: March 25, 2019, 8:07 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: kelxref link ---
       >
       > [quote author=bmb link=topic=658.msg6206#msg6206
       date=1553429837]
       > [quote author=kelxref link=topic=658.msg6205#msg6205
       date=1553421184]
       > Whilst I agree this was a bad error, I do have some sympathy
       with the referee and think UEFA is partly to blame for this.
       Ruddy Buquet works with VAR every week in his national league,
       he works with AARs in Europa League games, so whilst I
       understand we can’t yet have VAR in all Euro qualifiers, I don’t
       understand why UEFA is not appointing AARs for these games.
       After all they did appoint them for the less important Nations
       league games earlier in the season, and I think their presence
       in the game in Sofia would probably have prevented this error
       occuring.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Agree one or the other would have prevented this & I further
       agree that one or the other should have been used but I'm sorry
       - he is a FIFA referee and as such should be perfectly capable
       of making these decisions correctly on his own, no VAR or AAR to
       hold his hand & make them for him.  If he can no longer make
       decisions on his own then it goes a huge way to proving a point
       made by many of the detractors to VAR that it will stop in
       particular less competent referees from making decisions because
       VAR will make the decisions for them.
       As for calling the Nations League less important I beg to
       differ, I sincerely doubt the teams that qualified for the Euros
       via it found it any less important, in fact I think they will
       have found it a vital lifeline & probably more important than
       the qualifiers. If only the MLSz had done what the fans asked
       and appointed Rossi the first time round instead of subjecting
       the Hungary NT to 10 months of Leekens, Hungary would have
       potentially qualified during the tournament, instead of messing
       that up & the qualifiers! It might seem unimportant to the big
       teams who always qualify for these things but it's certainly not
       seen as such by the smaller nations where it is potentially the
       only route to take part in a tournament.
       [/quote]
       I fully accept I was wrong to imply that the Nations Leagues was
       less important than the qualifiers. What I should have said was
       that by not appointing AARs, UEFA is implying the qualifiers are
       less important than the Nations League. This error could have
       been avoided and Montenegro will feel justifiably unhappy if it
       causes them to avoid qualifying.
       On your other point, I accept that an absence of VAR or AARs
       should not be used to excuse any referees' lack of competence.
       However, this kind of incident using a 3 official system does
       seem to me to lead to a potential "blind spot" for the officials
       (i.e. AR running parallel to the penalty area line and the
       referee favouring the left side through his diagonal). I would
       be very interested to know what formal advice is given to
       referees on how to adjust their positioning when AARs are
       present versus when they are not. I noted on Saturday when
       watching Michael Oliver (who is regularly using the 3 official
       system in the Premier League) refereeing Sweden v Romania, how
       he moved towards the right hand side when attacks built up from
       that side of the pitch. I felt he would certainly have been in a
       better position to make the correct call if a similar incident
       to one in the Bulgarian v Montenegro game had occurred in his
       match.
       
       [/quote]
       I think the lack of AARs being appointed is not so much that
       UEFA feel the qualifiers less important but is more down to the
       fact they are now phasing them out to replace them with VAR. I
       can't remember if they appointed AARs to the 2016 qualifiers -
       too long ago! I do think, UEFA have erred there & I think we
       actually agree on that!
       Your 2nd point, interesting point regarding positioning. I could
       be petty and argue that Oliver is a very competent official but
       as I'm in a good mood today I won't!  ;D  Hungary were one of
       the test nations for AAR and continue to use them in the
       domestic league but the match officials in the main there manage
       to adapt their positioning without too much fuss in the 3
       official system (Kassai & Bognár anyway, Vad is debatable).  I
       suspect positioning was on Buquet's assessors Report as a point
       of learning!!
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