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       #Post#: 85418--------------------------------------------------
       R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
       Date: November 29, 2024, 3:35 pm
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       Very unique offside intervention for VAR.
       I do think Armstrong has made a play for the ball given the
       flick up of his leg towards the ball, which was a clear movement
       given the adjustment in his running style. I was actually
       wondering if VAR couldn’t see the ball to determine if Archer
       was ahead of it or behind on first glance.
       Whether that’s affected the Brighton defender is negligible, but
       Archer unfortunately onside.
       As for Jones, he’s done well again, and another game at the AMEX
       he’s officiating where the cards have been out in force to both
       benches following that minor skirmish.
       #Post#: 85419--------------------------------------------------
       Re: R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
       Date: November 29, 2024, 3:50 pm
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       I’m astonished that this is offside and Rashford - running 20
       yards directly at the ball before moving away at the last minute
       - famously wasn’t in the Manchester derby.
       The laws of the game do not help IMO. There are often decisions
       given which do not match what fans expect them to be, and
       explaining that technically they are correct just alienates
       officials more.
       #Post#: 85421--------------------------------------------------
       Re: R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: TA_Ref
       Date: November 29, 2024, 4:14 pm
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       Very tough one for VAR there. As previously said, you can tell
       Armstrong has deliberately flicked his heel up towards the ball
       and then you’re diving into the offside rule very thoroughly. To
       be completely honest, the laws change so much I don’t know the
       current version but I do not believe that little attempted flick
       has influenced the play in any way, shape or form. The onfield
       decision I believe was offside (?) so I think that VAR are right
       to stay with that decision.
       We can always bring up that Rashford offside but that was now
       2/3 seasons ago and like I already said, the laws change so much
       that any decision from another season cannot be used as a
       suitable comparison
       Overall, good stuff from Rob Jones. Very consistent with fouls
       and level of contact (which was admittedly quite low). Felt a
       bit sorry for him during that long VAR check as you could see he
       seemed a bit uncomfortable imo.
       #Post#: 85423--------------------------------------------------
       Re: R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: Ref95
       Date: November 30, 2024, 2:12 am
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       Very interesting one, probably depends on what the offside
       on-field was a given for really. If it was given against Archer
       then Jones should have been sent to the screen to determine
       Armstrong’s involvement, if it was given against Armstrong I can
       understand staying with the on-field decision. I might add, that
       had the on-field call been onside, I would also expect them to
       stick with this.
       #Post#: 85425--------------------------------------------------
       Re: R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: Failed Ref
       Date: November 30, 2024, 2:21 am
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       VAR is being criticised in some circles but this is not a VAR
       issue but an issue with interpretation of the laws in this
       situation. On field decision is offside so maybe VAR stuck with
       that although offside calls are a matter of fact. A difficult
       one this and I am struggling to decide what the correct decision
       is.
       #Post#: 85426--------------------------------------------------
       Re: R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
       Date: November 30, 2024, 3:05 am
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       I’ve been mulling over this again.
       Is this offside offence not a subjective decision, on the basis
       that Armstrong may or may not have been active in an offside
       position, and didn’t touch the ball.
       There are many precedents where the referee has been sent to the
       screen for this type of decision?
       #Post#: 85427--------------------------------------------------
       Re: R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
       Date: November 30, 2024, 4:25 am
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       There is no way Armstrong’s actions caused any impact to either
       of the defenders or the keeper.
       Therefore it should have been a goal.
       #Post#: 85431--------------------------------------------------
       Re: R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: November 30, 2024, 5:40 am
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       --- Quote from: Marvin Grapevine link ---
       >
       > There is no way Armstrong’s actions caused any impact to
       either of the defenders or the keeper.
       >
       > Therefore it should have been a goal.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       As the laws stand it is a clear offside offence.  He's in front
       of the keeper, so he can't properly react until he sees whether
       Armstrong touches the ball or not.  Would he have saved it
       without Armstrong making that action?  Who knows, and probably
       not, but the fact of the matter is Armstrong did attempt to play
       the ball, and that means he committed an offside offence.
       #Post#: 85432--------------------------------------------------
       Re: R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: UmpireIan49
       Date: November 30, 2024, 6:03 am
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       Have just seen this incident and it falls into the “subjective”
       category.
       Offside was given on field I believe? If that’s wrong, then by
       all means correct me, but in the old days, the decision would
       have stood and the game moves on.
       It took Jarred Gillett (who’s had a very good season by the way
       on VAR during his enforced lay off) four minutes to decide on no
       goal. That is too long, in fairness, but it’s two people’s view
       (VAR and AVAR) on a subjective decision.
       Why did the Southampton striker stick a leg out to play the
       ball? That’s what Gillett was deciding, did it affect the play?
       In his opinion, yes, and I happen to agree with it.
       The Southampton manager complained about it but I would be more
       concerned about the lack of discipline by him on more than one
       occasion this season and by the Brighton manager too. You can
       argue about this decision until the cows come home, but you are
       dealing with one person’s opinion.
       The laws do change so much now that there is a lack of clarity.
       Howard Webb will doubtless deal with it on his Sky programme
       soon.
       As I said, I would have arrived at the same conclusion.
       #Post#: 85482--------------------------------------------------
       Re: R JONES - Brighton v Southampton 
   DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
       Date: December 2, 2024, 3:51 am
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       How does this decision sit with the one against Southampton when
       Merino actually attempted to head a ball (that was in front of
       him and clearly playable) from an offside position? Martinelli
       then scored, and the goal was given.
       For me the two decisions are the wrong way around. Merino *did*
       impact on the keeper, whereas Armstrong didn't.
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