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#Post#: 5977--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: Tweed
Date: March 14, 2019, 3:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If you look at Croatia, CSKA Moscow and even to a degree Celtic
in Europe where strict liability is enforced and in every case
you see repeat offences. My main point is that strict liability
for clubs/nations quite blatantly doesn't work for anything
other than denying an income stream which could be used to
improve policing/stewarding. I'm really hoping the 14 week
sentence for running onto the pitch is enough to make any rasper
who would contemplate in the next few weeks think long and hard
about it. Not sure if it's the same in ENgland but in Scotland
the clubs pay the police forces to man their games and you
frequently see them standing and watching the game or watching
fans lighting flares etc without making the first pretence of
wading in and actually arresting the person. If the police had
dealt with these indiscretions sooner and the CPS fired them in
a cell then I think it is likely this would have been nipped in
the bud by now, I hope and pray these high profile incidents
last weekend were the start of authority fighting back.
I thought this was an excellent article.
HTML https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/03/10/jack-grealish-attack-britain-attack-football-aston-villa?xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=si-soccer&utm_source=twitter.com
#Post#: 5979--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 14, 2019, 5:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Tweed - English clubs do pay for policing. I'm not sure if they
pay the full cost or a proportion of them but they certainly pay
something. I agree with you about denying the income stream is
not the answer - it's not the fans themselves who feel the force
of that.
Clubs need to ban the idiots for life & have posters up at
grounds naming and shaming and reinforcing to those standing in
the queue to get a pint that they will be banned for life from
the club they purport to love. Put a page or 2 in the program
reinforcing it will lead to a life ban etc.
We don't have the problem in Hungary, we're still in the dark
ages where there are nets up in front of the stands!
#Post#: 5981--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: reflector
Date: March 15, 2019, 3:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Tweed link ---
>
> If you look at Croatia, CSKA Moscow and even to a degree
Celtic in Europe where strict liability is enforced and in every
case you see repeat offences. My main point is that strict
liability for clubs/nations quite blatantly doesn't work for
anything other than denying an income stream which could be used
to improve policing/stewarding. I'm really hoping the 14 week
sentence for running onto the pitch is enough to make any rasper
who would contemplate in the next few weeks think long and hard
about it. Not sure if it's the same in ENgland but in Scotland
the clubs pay the police forces to man their games and you
frequently see them standing and watching the game or watching
fans lighting flares etc without making the first pretence of
wading in and actually arresting the person. If the police had
dealt with these indiscretions sooner and the CPS fired them in
a cell then I think it is likely this would have been nipped in
the bud by now, I hope and pray these high profile incidents
last weekend were the start of authority fighting back.
>
> I thought this was an excellent article.
>
>
HTML https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/03/10/jack-grealish-attack-britain-attack-football-aston-villa?xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=si-soccer&utm_source=twitter.com
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree about the article. I don't particularly want to be
political about this but it is a fact that 20,000 police and
20,000 police civilian staff were cut when the Prime Minister
was Home Secretary, aided and abetted by the most senior police
officers, and we are all now paying the price as they simply
don't have sufficient resources now to cope with the rise in
crime. There should be more police in grounds as a deterrent
and, at the higher levels of football, there is more than enough
money to pay for it. My maths isn't that good but I guess that
a weeks wages paid to a single top player in a Premiership club
would be more than enough to pay for sufficient police to
patrol inside the ground but whether, at present, there are
sufficient police available to cope, I doubt.
#Post#: 5982--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: nemesis
Date: March 15, 2019, 4:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> Clearly stewarding/policing is important but ultimately the
only solution is to make such behaviour completely unacceptable
to everyone in a football ground, including the morons who
cheered the attack on Jack Grealish, rather like drink driving
has become to society as a whole. Fining clubs won't do this.
Making clubs play behind closed doors is a far more meaningful
punishment that directly affects those in the stands. Perhaps
such punishments would encourage a degree of self-policing
amongst fans.
>
--- End Quote ---
Making a club play "behind closed doors" punishes the 99.99 % of
innocent fans and of course the totally innocent away fans.
Provided the club has not been negligent in its security
arrangements it should be down to the judiciary to ensure that
sentences are a sufficient deterrent. I'm not sure the recent
example hit the spot.
#Post#: 5988--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: ajb95
Date: March 15, 2019, 2:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=Ref Watcher link=topic=628.msg5967#msg5967
date=1552577918]
> Clearly stewarding/policing is important but ultimately the
only solution is to make such behaviour completely unacceptable
to everyone in a football ground, including the morons who
cheered the attack on Jack Grealish, rather like drink driving
has become to society as a whole. Fining clubs won't do this.
Making clubs play behind closed doors is a far more meaningful
punishment that directly affects those in the stands. Perhaps
such punishments would encourage a degree of self-policing
amongst fans.
>
--- End Quote ---
Making a club play "behind closed doors" punishes the 99.99 % of
innocent fans and of course the totally innocent away fans.
Provided the club has not been negligent in its security
arrangements it should be down to the judiciary to ensure that
sentences are a sufficient deterrent. I'm not sure the recent
example hit the spot.
[/quote]
But the judiciary can only sentence to people according to the
laws and governs of the particular law in question.
I’m not 100% on the facts but for spectator encroachment onto a
pitch think 14 weeks is probably about average for this
particular crime
#Post#: 5989--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: March 15, 2019, 2:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=nemesis link=topic=628.msg5982#msg5982
date=1552642870]
> [quote author=Ref Watcher link=topic=628.msg5967#msg5967
date=1552577918]
> Clearly stewarding/policing is important but ultimately the
only solution is to make such behaviour completely unacceptable
to everyone in a football ground, including the morons who
cheered the attack on Jack Grealish, rather like drink driving
has become to society as a whole. Fining clubs won't do this.
Making clubs play behind closed doors is a far more meaningful
punishment that directly affects those in the stands. Perhaps
such punishments would encourage a degree of self-policing
amongst fans.
>
--- End Quote ---
Making a club play "behind closed doors" punishes the 99.99 % of
innocent fans and of course the totally innocent away fans.
Provided the club has not been negligent in its security
arrangements it should be down to the judiciary to ensure that
sentences are a sufficient deterrent. I'm not sure the recent
example hit the spot.
[/quote]
But the judiciary can only sentence to people according to the
laws and governs of the particular law in question.
I’m not 100% on the facts but for spectator encroachment onto a
pitch think 14 weeks is probably about average for this
particular crime
[/quote]
I would say this was more than just spectator encroachment - he
made physical contact with a player.
#Post#: 5994--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 16, 2019, 9:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=628.msg5988#msg5988
date=1552678880]
> [quote author=nemesis link=topic=628.msg5982#msg5982
date=1552642870]
> [quote author=Ref Watcher link=topic=628.msg5967#msg5967
date=1552577918]
> Clearly stewarding/policing is important but ultimately the
only solution is to make such behaviour completely unacceptable
to everyone in a football ground, including the morons who
cheered the attack on Jack Grealish, rather like drink driving
has become to society as a whole. Fining clubs won't do this.
Making clubs play behind closed doors is a far more meaningful
punishment that directly affects those in the stands. Perhaps
such punishments would encourage a degree of self-policing
amongst fans.
>
--- End Quote ---
Making a club play "behind closed doors" punishes the 99.99 % of
innocent fans and of course the totally innocent away fans.
Provided the club has not been negligent in its security
arrangements it should be down to the judiciary to ensure that
sentences are a sufficient deterrent. I'm not sure the recent
example hit the spot.
[/quote]
But the judiciary can only sentence to people according to the
laws and governs of the particular law in question.
I’m not 100% on the facts but for spectator encroachment onto a
pitch think 14 weeks is probably about average for this
particular crime
[/quote]
I would say this was more than just spectator encroachment - he
made physical contact with a player.
[/quote]
Agreed. It should have been tried and sentenced as a common
assault not mere spectator encroachment.
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