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#Post#: 5899--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: Jherbert
Date: March 12, 2019, 5:12 am
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There need to be stronger action taken with anyone who comes
onto the pitch. I understand that end of season etc fans
celebrate and we have to make sure that in the current climate
there is always going to be one nut job who could have a weapon
and do something. We can risk anything happening and then act
afterwards. What also staggers me is that this so called fan at
Birmingham had a stadium ban already. the £100 I am sure will
end up with charity and not in Grealish's pocket
#Post#: 5902--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 12, 2019, 8:52 am
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--- Quote from: reflector link ---
>
> Not much has been made of it but in a way almost more serious
is that a steward was reported as being led away after
attempting to knee Grealish in the back during his goal
celebrations. I believe no charges are being laid as a result
of that but, if true, there does seem to be a problem with
stewarding at St Andrews, whether that be because there aren't
enough or that they need to be better trained and supervised.
>
--- End Quote ---
There was a lot of footage floating about on twitter of that
incident & it did look like the steward was trying to lay into
him but at the same time it wasn't particularly clear. It was
the back to side view of him, lots of people obscuring the view
from the camera - he was certainly making the motions but
unclear as to whether he made any contact and if he did with
who. I doubt it would have passed the evidentiary rules to have
been used in court put it that way.
I hope he has been sacked as a steward & banned from the ground
though.
#Post#: 5953--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: Tweed
Date: March 13, 2019, 5:11 pm
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--- Quote from: reflector link ---
>
> Tweed asks how Birmingham and Hibs could have dealt with it
better. The short answer is I don't know and I accept it isn't
easy but someone has to take responsibility for it and surely
the home club has to be accountable for the safety of the ground
and everyone in it. Not much has been made of it but in a way
almost more serious is that a steward was reported as being led
away after attempting to knee Grealish in the back during his
goal celebrations.
>
--- End Quote ---
So I agree that the home club has some responsibility however if
someone decides to jump the barrier there is nothing much you
can do about it, the trick is to be able to react quickly. I'm
very concerned we're going to start punishing clubs when they
are totally unable to do anything to prevent issues.
#Post#: 5956--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: March 14, 2019, 4:11 am
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I agree with Tweed in that I'm not sure making teams play behind
closed doors is a desirable response - it ought to be absolutely
the last resort. If there was a disruptive audience member in
the theatre then it is hard to imagine the next run of the play
being performed in front of no one. You only had to look at the
Croatia V England game in October to see how much of a
detrimental effect it can have on the spectacle. Football is a
form of entertainment and for any upcoming game there will be
supporters who have attended every match for X number of years
or have planned a trip from afar for a special occasion.
I also agree with Tweed that there's a limit to what any one
club can do to stop a supporter from behaving undesirably and it
can't be guaranteed that imposing a punishment on the club will
categorically stop a supporter from doing wrong.
That said, there must be an argument that it could act as a
deterrent to some degree and might also encourage other
supporters nearby to self-police. I guess some could also argue
that there's only so much a club can do if their manager wants
to abuse an official or a player wants to bite an opponent but
they are still responsible for indiscretions such as that, so
why they shouldn't they be responsible for their supporters too?
This certainly seems to be how UEFA sees it (clubs are regularly
charged for fan behaviour) and I suppose there is the argument
that a club is represented by supporters just as much as it is
by players/coaching staff, etc. A strong enough deterrent can
also help ensure that clubs take security as seriously as
possible and allocate the maximum level of resources to this.
It is a difficult issue with no easy solution but certainly a
topic that needs considering to ensure the safety of those
involved. For a first offence, I would certainly not agree with
a behind closed doors approach or points deduction but I would
not object if the club received a fine (which has happened for
pitch invasions after the full-time whistle in the past.)
#Post#: 5961--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 14, 2019, 6:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The only way any club can prevent a spectator determined to get
on the pitch from doing so is by having a complete ring of
stewards around the perimeter, which is completely impractical.
What they do need to look at is their response time to it
happening. He should not have got as far as he did before being
tackled by stewards.
The problem is in the training of stewards. There are 2 levels
of stewards. The stewards in the orange jackets are not trained
in tackling spectators, they are trained to show people to their
seats and basic crowd safety. If there was an incident where the
crowd needed to be evacuated for example, they are trained how
to carry this out quickly and safely. The stewards in the
yellow jackets are the only ones trained to deal with any
trouble, they are often made up from serving prison officers and
ex police who already have a high level of training in control
and restraint. They operate in teams of 3. Clubs are only told
that they have to have x number of stewards per x number of
supporters, there is no requirement for them to have more than
1-2 teams of the yellow jacket stewards as far as I know. Clubs
therefore will have the minimum yellow jackets that they can get
away with because they cost 4-5 times as much as the orange
jackets. I was earning £25-40/hour (in London) as a yellow
jacket steward 20 years ago so goodness knows how much they earn
now, the orange jacket stewards at the time were earning
£5-7.50/hour. Clubs need to employ more yellow jacket stewards
and have them better positioned to respond quickly to any
incident or the whole training system needs to be changed so
that the orange jacket stewards are trained to deal with these
type of incidents as well.
#Post#: 5964--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: March 14, 2019, 8:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> The only way any club can prevent a spectator determined to
get on the pitch from doing so is by having a complete ring of
stewards around the perimeter, which is completely impractical.
What they do need to look at is their response time to it
happening. He should not have got as far as he did before being
tackled by stewards.
>
> The problem is in the training of stewards. There are 2 levels
of stewards. The stewards in the orange jackets are not trained
in tackling spectators, they are trained to show people to their
seats and basic crowd safety. If there was an incident where the
crowd needed to be evacuated for example, they are trained how
to carry this out quickly and safely. The stewards in the
yellow jackets are the only ones trained to deal with any
trouble, they are often made up from serving prison officers and
ex police who already have a high level of training in control
and restraint. They operate in teams of 3. Clubs are only told
that they have to have x number of stewards per x number of
supporters, there is no requirement for them to have more than
1-2 teams of the yellow jacket stewards as far as I know. Clubs
therefore will have the minimum yellow jackets that they can get
away with because they cost 4-5 times as much as the orange
jackets. I was earning £25-40/hour (in London) as a yellow
jacket steward 20 years ago so goodness knows how much they earn
now, the orange jacket stewards at the time were earning
£5-7.50/hour. Clubs need to employ more yellow jacket stewards
and have them better positioned to respond quickly to any
incident or the whole training system needs to be changed so
that the orange jacket stewards are trained to deal with these
type of incidents as well.
>
--- End Quote ---
I actually thought the steward in question reacted very quickly
to the situation - I do not see that they could have reacted
much quicker. In the current set-up, it is obviously always
going to be the case that the pitch invader has a 'head start'
on the chasing steward - I have seen pitch invaders get to the
halfway line in the past before a steward enters.
The second point suggests that there is more that clubs can do
to reduce the risk of such an incident happening (even if they
cannot 100% ensure it is avoided.) A sizeable fine might make
clubs reconsider their security arrangements because, rather
like getting insurance, it can be worth making a smaller payment
to prevent you from potentially having a more more significant
payout if something goes wrong.
#Post#: 5966--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 14, 2019, 9:43 am
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I think all clubs need to have a sit down this week with the
match day safety officer and local police liaison officer and
have a review of their procedures, the number of stewards they
employ and whether those stewards need to go on further
training. I'm not criticising stewards, they can only do what
they have been trained to do and are told to do at the pre-match
briefing & for the best part they do a great job. If a non
control & restraint trained steward were to jump in & help, they
can be sued or even have criminal charges against them, which is
rediculous, imo. Clubs mustn't sit back & think well that
wouldn't happen here, they need to be proactive in ensuring they
do all they can to minimise the chances, take this as a chance
to have a review. No-one wants to see a player or match official
seriously injured by some numpty.
#Post#: 5967--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: March 14, 2019, 10:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Clearly stewarding/policing is important but ultimately the only
solution is to make such behaviour completely unacceptable to
everyone in a football ground, including the morons who cheered
the attack on Jack Grealish, rather like drink driving has
become to society as a whole. Fining clubs won't do this.
Making clubs play behind closed doors is a far more meaningful
punishment that directly affects those in the stands. Perhaps
such punishments would encourage a degree of self-policing
amongst fans.
#Post#: 5968--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: March 14, 2019, 10:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Watcher link ---
>
> Clearly stewarding/policing is important but ultimately the
only solution is to make such behaviour completely unacceptable
to everyone in a football ground, including the morons who
cheered the attack on Jack Grealish, rather like drink driving
has become to society as a whole. Fining clubs won't do this.
Making clubs play behind closed doors is a far more meaningful
punishment that directly affects those in the stands. Perhaps
such punishments would encourage a degree of self-policing
amongst fans.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree that self-policing is important but personally think a
fine and perhaps a suspended behind-closed doors approach is
best for a first offence.
#Post#: 5976--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spectator Encroachment
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: March 14, 2019, 2:33 pm
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Birmingham and Arsenal both charged -
HTML https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47574128
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