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#Post#: 82785--------------------------------------------------
Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: Tweed
Date: September 15, 2024, 11:59 am
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HTML https://x.com/StranraerFC/status/1835285667141607519
This is one of the stranger red cards you'll see.
#Post#: 82793--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: Leggy
Date: September 15, 2024, 12:55 pm
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What was the free kick awarded for?
If it was for handling outside the penalty area I would
seriously question that constituting DOGSO.
If it was for releasing the ball into play and then playing it
again with his hands before an opponent has touched it then it
cannot be a red card as it would be an indirect free-kick.
I may, of course, be seriously out of date so would be happy to
be (kindly) educated!
#Post#: 82795--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: Tonydent
Date: September 15, 2024, 1:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Would say it’s an offence punishable by a free kick so this
clause of law 12 probably covers it:
- denying a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an
opponent whose overall movement is towards the offender’s goal
by an offence punishable by a free kick
The above relates to red card offences.
#Post#: 82797--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: Ref25
Date: September 15, 2024, 2:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It cannot be a red card if the offence is handling the ball
inside the Penalty Area where not permitted to do so. From the
LOTG:
The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball as
any other player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper
handles the ball inside their penalty area when not permitted to
do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but there is no
disciplinary sanction. However, if the offence is playing the
ball a second time (with or without the hand/arm) after a
restart before it touches another player, the goalkeeper must be
sanctioned if the offence stops a promising attack or denies an
opponent or the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity.
The full highlights show the restart (from 15:15). Even more
bizarre than the incident, the free kick is taken from outside
the penalty area but an Indirect Free Kick is the restart. That
cannot be right and is a pretty serious error of law. It has to
be either:
An indirect free kick inside the penalty area OR
A direct free kick outside the penalty area.
AR2 doesn’t flag for a handling offence outside the penalty area
and runs up the field as if there are no issues. The referee
doesn’t recognise the offence straight away. The above plus the
IFK signal makes me think AR1 has advised down the comms of the
double handling and that is what has been given. I think all 3
officials are in trouble for the red card, as somebody has to
recognise that the law specifically rules out a disciplinary
sanction.
If it were a handball offence outside the penalty area, I don’t
think it’s DOGSO. The attacker doesn’t have control of the ball
and it’s just as likely the goalkeeper kicks the ball away
rather than handles if they had released inside the penalty
area. The attacker also stops when they think the goalkeeper is
going to catch it inside the penalty area.
#Post#: 82803--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: rustyref
Date: September 15, 2024, 4:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref25 link ---
>
> It cannot be a red card if the offence is handling the ball
inside the Penalty Area where not permitted to do so. From the
LOTG:
>
> The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball
as any other player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper
handles the ball inside their penalty area when not permitted to
do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but there is no
disciplinary sanction. However, if the offence is playing the
ball a second time (with or without the hand/arm) after a
restart before it touches another player, the goalkeeper must be
sanctioned if the offence stops a promising attack or denies an
opponent or the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity.
>
> The full highlights show the restart (from 15:15). Even more
bizarre than the incident, the free kick is taken from outside
the penalty area but an Indirect Free Kick is the restart. That
cannot be right and is a pretty serious error of law. It has to
be either:
>
> An indirect free kick inside the penalty area OR
> A direct free kick outside the penalty area.
>
> AR2 doesn’t flag for a handling offence outside the penalty
area and runs up the field as if there are no issues. The
referee doesn’t recognise the offence straight away. The above
plus the IFK signal makes me think AR1 has advised down the
comms of the double handling and that is what has been given. I
think all 3 officials are in trouble for the red card, as
somebody has to recognise that the law specifically rules out a
disciplinary sanction.
>
> If it were a handball offence outside the penalty area, I
don’t think it’s DOGSO. The attacker doesn’t have control of the
ball and it’s just as likely the goalkeeper kicks the ball away
rather than handles if they had released inside the penalty
area. The attacker also stops when they think the goalkeeper is
going to catch it inside the penalty area.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not sure that applies here though. I've bolded the specific
text that makes me think that, after a restart, there was no
restart here as the ball never went out of play.
#Post#: 82805--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: Ref25
Date: September 15, 2024, 4:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Ref25 link=topic=6255.msg82797#msg82797
date=1726428487]
> It cannot be a red card if the offence is handling the ball
inside the Penalty Area where not permitted to do so. From the
LOTG:
>
> The goalkeeper has the same restrictions on handling the ball
as any other player outside the penalty area. If the goalkeeper
handles the ball inside their penalty area when not permitted to
do so, an indirect free kick is awarded but there is no
disciplinary sanction. However, if the offence is playing the
ball a second time (with or without the hand/arm) after a
restart before it touches another player, the goalkeeper must be
sanctioned if the offence stops a promising attack or denies an
opponent or the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring
opportunity.
>
> The full highlights show the restart (from 15:15). Even more
bizarre than the incident, the free kick is taken from outside
the penalty area but an Indirect Free Kick is the restart. That
cannot be right and is a pretty serious error of law. It has to
be either:
>
> An indirect free kick inside the penalty area OR
> A direct free kick outside the penalty area.
>
> AR2 doesn’t flag for a handling offence outside the penalty
area and runs up the field as if there are no issues. The
referee doesn’t recognise the offence straight away. The above
plus the IFK signal makes me think AR1 has advised down the
comms of the double handling and that is what has been given. I
think all 3 officials are in trouble for the red card, as
somebody has to recognise that the law specifically rules out a
disciplinary sanction.
>
> If it were a handball offence outside the penalty area, I
don’t think it’s DOGSO. The attacker doesn’t have control of the
ball and it’s just as likely the goalkeeper kicks the ball away
rather than handles if they had released inside the penalty
area. The attacker also stops when they think the goalkeeper is
going to catch it inside the penalty area.
>
--- End Quote ---
Not sure that applies here though. I've bolded the specific
text that makes me think that, after a restart, there was no
restart here as the ball never went out of play.
[/quote]
I’m afraid I don’t understand the point being made in relation
to my post. I’ve quoted the full relevant part of the LOTG so it
can be shown when a goalkeeper might be dismissed for handling
the ball in their own penalty area - only when this is playing a
ball for a second time at a restart. I would agree that the part
beginning with “However” doesn’t apply here, because there was
no restart.
The second sentence of the extract from the LOTG that I have
quoted is what applies to the situation in the clip (on the
basis the full highlights show an Indirect Free Kick being
signalled):
If the goalkeeper handles the ball inside their penalty area
when not permitted to do so, an indirect free kick is awarded
but there is no disciplinary sanction.
#Post#: 82819--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: ARF
Date: September 16, 2024, 6:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
For those who don't think the goalkeeper handling outside the
area here would constitute DOGSO... Remove the goalkeeper from
the equation - would the attacker not have an OGSO? The
goalkeeper has deliberately handled the ball precisely to
prevent the attacker gaining possession.
#Post#: 82822--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: GingerReferee
Date: September 16, 2024, 6:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Correct me if I’m wrong here because I may well be.
The keeper has messed up royally launching the ball up in the
air, therefore releasing it for the first time, and then goes to
retrieve it again in a foot race with the attacker coming from
the other direction, and beats him, by picking it up again,
which he can’t do. If that was a restart, I.e a goal kick, he
could be sent off but because it is in play it’s just an
indirect free kick and no sanction?
#Post#: 82827--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: ARF
Date: September 16, 2024, 9:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: GingerReferee link ---
>
> Correct me if I’m wrong here because I may well be.
>
> The keeper has messed up royally launching the ball up in the
air, therefore releasing it for the first time, and then goes to
retrieve it again in a foot race with the attacker coming from
the other direction, and beats him, by picking it up again,
which he can’t do. If that was a restart, I.e a goal kick, he
could be sent off but because it is in play it’s just an
indirect free kick and no sanction?
>
--- End Quote ---
You are correct. The restart was a free kick outside the penalty
area, which would suggest that the officials believed that the
handling was outside the box, hence the DOGSO red. However, as
the ref gave an indirect free kick outside the area, f*** knows
what the exact decision was 🤣
#Post#: 82847--------------------------------------------------
Re: Stranraer v East Fife
DIR By: GingerReferee
Date: September 16, 2024, 4:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ARF link ---
>
> [quote author=GingerReferee link=topic=6255.msg82822#msg82822
date=1726487500]
> Correct me if I’m wrong here because I may well be.
>
> The keeper has messed up royally launching the ball up in the
air, therefore releasing it for the first time, and then goes to
retrieve it again in a foot race with the attacker coming from
the other direction, and beats him, by picking it up again,
which he can’t do. If that was a restart, I.e a goal kick, he
could be sent off but because it is in play it’s just an
indirect free kick and no sanction?
>
--- End Quote ---
You are correct. The restart was a free kick outside the penalty
area, which would suggest that the officials believed that the
handling was outside the box, hence the DOGSO red. However, as
the ref gave an indirect free kick outside the area, f*** knows
what the exact decision was 🤣
[/quote]
Who knows? And why did the assistant not flag if it was for
dogso outside the box as surely he has to have a say on it?
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