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#Post#: 82427--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: August 31, 2024, 12:20 pm
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Interesting situation and I think I am in the minority by
thinking Kavanagh handled it correctly.
Firstly I think any objective analysis would say Rice
deliberately delayed the restart. I don't think arguments that
he accidentally did that are at all credible. So in the law the
matter is settled in my humble opinion.
With regards to the arguments it is better left ignored,
personally I have little sympathy. Rice kicking the ball away in
itself may be ignorable but he is then kicked (primarily as a
result of his actions) and goes down. Now the referee has an
incident to deal with. There is a scene he must resolve - and
while Rice may have been hurt, he did cause that scene. Does he
send off the Brighton player for VC (of course not), caution and
send off Rice (in my view yes) or take both players aside and
manage it without formal sanction (possibly).
The final option is probably most desirable for a referee
seeking to avoid attention at all costs; but not for a referee
attempting to strike that fine balance between empathy applying
the laws - I think Rice was correctly dismissed.
Two quick final points - yes this type of action could be
ignored in another scenario without being inconsistent, the
context of what happens, rather than the act itself in
isolation, must surely be the spirit level for consistency. And
finally, whenever a referee is accused of applying a law
correctly, but too stringently, I believe the primary blame must
still lie with the offending player.
#Post#: 82430--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: Matt1234
Date: August 31, 2024, 12:33 pm
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As usual a very well written post by Dublin ref agree with
everything you say on this matter
#Post#: 82431--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 31, 2024, 1:10 pm
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--- Quote from: gooner link ---
>
>
> i believe a potentially good game between two well matched
teams was ruined by over zealous officiating :(
>
> regards, gnr
>
--- End Quote ---
Ruined by player stupidity. He knew what he was doing, committed
a YC offence and got the YC for it and then everyone complains
that the ref ruined it by doing his job correctly...
#Post#: 82432--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: August 31, 2024, 1:10 pm
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And I agree too. DublinRef has summed it up perfectly. Manager
picks any easy target to blame so we can ignore him as he is
never honest enough to admit his player made a mistake. The
player has to shoulder responsibility here and should apologise
if only behind closed doors.
#Post#: 82433--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 31, 2024, 1:13 pm
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--- Quote from: tef link ---
>
> I think most people would be fine with this if it’s applied
consistently across every game for the whole season. We know it
won’t be (there’s even an example within this game of it not
being punished). For objective situations like delaying the
restart it should be simple to enforce consistently if the
officials are correctly watching the game.
>
> Let’s see how long the directive lasts. The point has now been
made with a big name player/club impacted - let’s see if it
fades away over time, just like last season’s directives.
>
--- End Quote ---
But why are the ones who do do it correctly the ones that get
slated? Shouldn't that be saved for those who are getting it
wrong?
#Post#: 82434--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 31, 2024, 1:14 pm
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Even Ian Wright said the referee got it spot on and the only
person to blame was Rice & his own stupidity. Ian Wright - the
massive Arsenal fan who won't hear a word said against them has
backed the referee 100%.
#Post#: 82439--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: guest308
Date: August 31, 2024, 3:02 pm
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--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> Even Ian Wright said the referee got it spot on and the only
person to blame was Rice & his own stupidity. Ian Wright - the
massive Arsenal fan who won't hear a word said against them has
backed the referee 100%.
>
--- End Quote ---
Doesn’t make him right .kavs one of the best but no matter how
good the best make errors of judgement and I firmly believe that
decision didn’t need making.
Sorry boss
#Post#: 82441--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: ajb95
Date: August 31, 2024, 3:17 pm
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No sympathy for Rice, stupid and correct to be sent off for 2nd
yellow. Surely Veltman should have seen some sanction at least a
caution (not sure if he got one, couldnt make out from
pictures).
My only question is why was the Brighton player who ran the ball
out of play in the first half and booted it away a good 20-25
yards not cautioned?
No consistency in the same game. And this is what annoys a lot
of people. Not Kavanagh's finest game overall too
#Post#: 82444--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: dtrv2
Date: August 31, 2024, 3:51 pm
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Absolutely no issue with the SBO - Rice knew what he was doing
and was trying to be cute. 99 times out of 100 you'd get away
with it, in this case he hasn't and that's his fault. However,
what frustrates fans and causes all the debate about the
correctness of it, as others have said, is the inconsistency
with which it is and will be applied, both within this match
itself, and across many other games in the future - including
almost certainly Kavanagh himself at various points throughout
the season.
What also makes this decision I think more controversial than it
needs to be is the 'softness' of it, given the non-YCs given for
several cynical challenges before it. It's easy to get the
'technically correct' YCs right, but you also want the other
more serious misconduct dealt with appropriately too, and then
the softer technical YCs don't seem so out of place. [emoji106]
#Post#: 82446--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Kavanagh Arsenal v BHA
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 31, 2024, 4:06 pm
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--- Quote from: dtrv2 link ---
>
> It's easy to get the 'technically correct' YCs right, but you
also want the other more serious misconduct dealt with
appropriately too, and then the softer technical YCs don't seem
so out of place. [emoji106]
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't disagree with this but the difference tends to be the
technically correct YC's tend to be objective. Now with
objective decisions it should be easy to reach consistency
because it's simply apply the LOTG correctly. We know there's
not consistency (and yes Kav got one wrong earlier so was
inconsistent himself) and when you read posts on this thread, it
isn't a decision that needed making, should have ignored it, not
necessary etc. there is your reason why you don't even get
consistency on technical objective decisions - there are those
who are happy to ignore them when it suits them.
The more cynical challenges are subjective and there will never
and can never be consistency where a decision is subjective. The
old addage of ask 100 people and get 100 different decisions.
If a group of referees can't even agree over an objective
technically correct as per the LOTG decision actually being
correct without a whinge about it then they're certainly never
going to agree on a subjective decision.
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