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#Post#: 5710--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: March 7, 2019, 8:18 am
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--- Quote from: Microscopist link ---
>
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=617.msg5696#msg5696
date=1551943505]
> As an English referee this for me is a NOT a penalty! Don’t
know why Walton on BT was going off on one about the rules as
they stand and all this garbage - don’t remember him ever giving
one like that!
>
> That aside for continental referees and uefa that is as clear
a penalty as you can get. I said it as soon as I saw the
replay.l!
>
> Fantastic comeback by United when everything was against them
and to have two English sides through when it seemed there would
be a max of 3 is brilliant!
>
--- End Quote ---
Ironically Mark Clattenburg, who gave a worse decision of
handball against Sterling, is saying that this one shouldn't
have been a penalty.
[/quote]
Well, that article was quite contradictory, because Clattenburg
seemed to say that whilst he didn't think such offences should
be penalised, UEFA thought they should be so therefore the
decision was technically correct.
I think Mark Clattenburg probably now thinks that the penalty
given for the situation with Sterling was also wrong.
#Post#: 5711--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: March 7, 2019, 8:21 am
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--- Quote from: Hendo link ---
>
> I remain completely confused as to what is and what isn’t a
penalty. It’s all a shambles and random decision making as far
as I can see.
>
--- End Quote ---
The one thing I would say is that when it comes to handball in
UEFA/FIFA games, these incidents have consistently been given
over the past 9 months or so when VAR is in use.
I suspect FIFA/UEFA have instructed their referees to give such
handballs for some time but without VAR they are much harder to
spot and therefore the award of penalties in such situations was
more sporadic - VAR at least seems to have introduced some form
of consistency in this regard, whether or not you agree with the
decisions.
#Post#: 5716--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: Hendo
Date: March 7, 2019, 10:58 am
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Just a thought.
As I understand it, if we are saying that in European matches
virtually everything that strikes the hand/arm in the box is
going to get a penalty, what is there to stop the more savvy
players deliberately kicking the ball at another players
hand/arm in the knowledge that a penalty is likely to result?
#Post#: 5721--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: kelxref
Date: March 7, 2019, 12:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hendo link ---
>
> Just a thought.
> As I understand it, if we are saying that in European matches
virtually everything that strikes the hand/arm in the box is
going to get a penalty, what is there to stop the more savvy
players deliberately kicking the ball at another players
hand/arm in the knowledge that a penalty is likely to result?
>
--- End Quote ---
I think there is a rationale behind the UEFA interpretation of
handball which might still let us avoid the savvy or cynical
scenario you described. Their instruction a couple of years ago
that if a ball strikes an arm or hand that is outstretched
should be penalised was the start of this. Taking this together
with the IFAB recent changes that penalising both a non
deliberate handball that results in a goal scored or gives
control of the ball to score a goal, is moving us to define
handball not by whether it is deliberate or not but by whether
it gives a clear advantage or gain. I think the sort of penalty
given to United last night would be difficult to recreate
deliberately. However, basing handball on whether it results in
a material gain, could for example be framed to exclude someone
flicking the ball against a players arm or hand from a short
range, which might be what you had in mind in your example.
Personally I don’t think this is a bad move and provides a more
objective criterion for judging handball. Consigning the more
subjective “intentional” to history as we did with fouling (back
in the 20th century) is long overdue in
my view.
#Post#: 5730--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: March 8, 2019, 3:53 am
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Hawkeye tracking needs to be introduced to be able to confirm
whether the shot was on target or not in order to have been
deemed to have gained an advantage.
#Post#: 5736--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: gunner33
Date: March 8, 2019, 7:56 am
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"The VAR, after checking various different angles available to
him, recommended to the referee an on-field review following the
penalty area incident.
Given that the referee did not recognise the incident clearly
during live play (referred to as serious missed incident in the
VAR protocol) an on-field review was conducted.
Following the on-field review, the referee confirmed that the
distance that the ball travelled was not short and the impact
could therefore not be unexpected. The defender’s arm was not
close to the body, which made the defender’s body bigger thus
resulting in the ball being stopped from travelling in the
direction of the goal. The referee, therefore, awarded a penalty
kick. "
HTML https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/newsid=2594607.html?iv=true&iv=true
#Post#: 5744--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: March 8, 2019, 11:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Briefing from FIFA instructor regarding handball -
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=g1ntPotJzRE
#Post#: 5748--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: March 8, 2019, 1:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: QuoCob link ---
>
> Hawkeye tracking needs to be introduced to be able to confirm
whether the shot was on target or not in order to have been
deemed to have gained an advantage.
>
--- End Quote ---
A shot / pass does not have to be on target for the defender to
gain an advantage.
#Post#: 5754--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: RCG
Date: March 9, 2019, 3:27 am
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"The player only commits an offence if they have gained an
advantage or have positioned themselves to prevent the ball
passing"
FIH Hockey rules with regards to blocking the ball (usually with
feet). This eliminates the deliberate tactic of aiming for a
player. The umpire has to decide if the shot was going into an
attacking area or there was a player to receice the pass
Not a bad starting point for handball consideration
#Post#: 5774--------------------------------------------------
Re: PSG v Manchester United
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: March 9, 2019, 3:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: RCG link ---
>
> "The player only commits an offence if they have gained an
advantage or have positioned themselves to prevent the ball
passing"
> FIH Hockey rules with regards to blocking the ball (usually
with feet). This eliminates the deliberate tactic of aiming for
a player. The umpire has to decide if the shot was going into an
attacking area or there was a player to receice the pass
>
> Not a bad starting point for handball consideration
>
--- End Quote ---
Could sensibly use the concept of gaining an advantage for both
handball and offside. Would be much easier to ask the question
in Sterling's case today as "Did he gain an advantage? - Easy
answer.
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