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#Post#: 81189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: Lionator27 Date: July 10, 2024, 4:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=6122.msg81186#msg81186
date=1720647016]
[quote author=ARF link=topic=6122.msg81184#msg81184
date=1720646240]
[quote author=Ref25 link=topic=6122.msg81177#msg81177
date=1720642990]
I just can’t agree.
The defender’s foot is moving near 90 degrees across the way the
attacker is facing / kicking. If the defender was moving some
way towards the attacker as part of the charge down / block then
I would understand it and say maybe you run the risk.
What is this more of?
The attacker kicking into the defender’s foot as part of a
follow through.
The defender kicking into the attacker as part of
challenging them for the ball.[/quote]
HTML https://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2024%2F0710%2Fr1357028_1296x729_16%2D9.jpg
Think you're painting a different picture to what actually
happened.
[/quote]
Only one player kicks his opponent and it certainly isn't
Dumfries. Normal attempt at a block and just nothing to see
until Kane rolls around for twenty minutes to insinuate that
there was a deliberate kick from his opponent.
English players tonight were definitely falling around to try to
get decisions, perhaps the furore unleashed by our media had
some effect.
[/quote]
We (England) have been particularly good at this all tournament.
Going back to the first game, Orsato gave us a lot of very soft
free kicks although I notice he didn’t against Switzerland.
Tonight, penalty aside, I think almost every single 50/50
decision went in our favour. Not complaining as a fan, but as a
referee, I don’t think he had a good night at all.
#Post#: 81190--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: Ref Fan Date: July 10, 2024, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It may well be the case that if Zwayer had awarded a penalty,
VAR wouldn't have intervened for an OFR. But I really don't
understand how a no-penalty decision can be seen as a clear and
obvious error.
Thought Zwayer had a very good first half and was ok in the
second until the last 15 minutes when he started to look less
relaxed as things heated up somewhat.
As for the football, England were much improved in that first 45
minutes, but for a good part of the second half, both teams seem
gave me the impression of not wanting to take any risks and
being prepared for extra time and penalties. A good strike to
win it though.
#Post#: 81191--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: ARF Date: July 10, 2024, 4:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=6122.msg81186#msg81186
date=1720647016]
Only one player kicks his opponent and it certainly isn't
Dumfries. Normal attempt at a block and just nothing to see
until Kane rolls around for twenty minutes to insinuate that
there was a deliberate kick from his opponent.
English players tonight were definitely falling around to try to
get decisions, perhaps the furore unleashed by our media had
some effect.
[/quote]
"Normal attempt at a block" going in studs first? Nah.
#Post#: 81192--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: Ashington46 Date: July 10, 2024, 4:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=ARF link=topic=6122.msg81191#msg81191
date=1720647861]
[quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=6122.msg81186#msg81186
date=1720647016]
Only one player kicks his opponent and it certainly isn't
Dumfries. Normal attempt at a block and just nothing to see
until Kane rolls around for twenty minutes to insinuate that
there was a deliberate kick from his opponent.
English players tonight were definitely falling around to try to
get decisions, perhaps the furore unleashed by our media had
some effect.
[/quote]
"Normal attempt at a block" going in studs first? Nah.
[/quote]
Please advise how you are supposed to block a shot in that
situation. Having played over 700 games at a decent level and
never once having been cautioned, in spite of being a defender,
I must have been getting away with murder for my 42 year playing
career. I suppose that I was lucky in playing in an era when
normal contact was accepted as just that and there was no
outside interference because we all accepted the decisions by
the officials, even if we didn't agree with every one.
JUst to clarify, the defender is actually side on to the ball
and it is only because Kane's leg is bent in trying to shoot
that he kicked the defender,
#Post#: 81193--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: ARF Date: July 10, 2024, 5:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=6122.msg81192#msg81192
date=1720648427]
Please advise how you are supposed to block a shot in that
situation. Having played over 700 games at a decent level and
never once having been cautioned, in spite of being a defender,
I must have been getting away with murder for my 42 year playing
career. I suppose that I was lucky in playing in an era when
normal contact was accepted as just that and there was no
outside interference because we all accepted the decisions by
the officials, even if we didn't agree with every one.
JUst to clarify, the defender is actually side on to the ball
and it is only because Kane's leg is bent in trying to shoot
that he kicked the defender,
[/quote]
He didn't block the shot. The attacker played the ball. He
didn't touch the ball. He went in studs first, missed the ball,
and put his studs into the attacker's foot.
Having seen plenty of football from the 70s and 80s, you never
being cautioned does not surprise me in the least. Thankfully,
the game has changed.
#Post#: 81194--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: RCG Date: July 10, 2024, 5:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Was it not Portugal who won the Euros without having won a match
in normal time?
No one looks back and says mediocre, just says winners
If (and its a big IF) we win on Sunday no one will care how
mediocre we have been either
Back to back Euro finals. First major final on foreign soil.
Unbeaten in the Championships - we seem to be doing ok
#Post#: 81195--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: Ref25 Date: July 10, 2024, 5:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=ARF link=topic=6122.msg81184#msg81184
date=1720646240]
[quote author=Ref25 link=topic=6122.msg81177#msg81177
date=1720642990]
I just can’t agree.
The defender’s foot is moving near 90 degrees across the way the
attacker is facing / kicking. If the defender was moving some
way towards the attacker as part of the charge down / block then
I would understand it and say maybe you run the risk.
What is this more of?
The attacker kicking into the defender’s foot as part of a
follow through.
The defender kicking into the attacker as part of
challenging them for the ball.[/quote]
HTML https://a2.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2024%2F0710%2Fr1357028_1296x729_16%2D9.jpg
Think you're painting a different picture to what actually
happened.
[/quote]
You can think that, but it’s just not correct and ironically the
picture you have posted rather than painted supports what I have
said (direction of attacker towards centre of goal and direction
of defender towards the technical areas).
A still image in this situation isn’t all that helpful (other
than for point of contact or the point I’ve just made). It
doesn’t show you how the contact came to occur and I note it is
after the point of contact with the ball by the attacker. This
one just a few frames before shows something different and is
still after the ball was struck.
HTML https://static.independent.co.uk/2024/07/10/22/2d5a33e3b6e27ff259b2eebb144d046fY29udGVudHNlYXJjaGFwaSwxNzIwNzI4OTUy-2.76811036.jpg
#Post#: 81196--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: Ashington46 Date: July 10, 2024, 5:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=ARF link=topic=6122.msg81193#msg81193
date=1720648996]
[quote author=Ashington46 link=topic=6122.msg81192#msg81192
date=1720648427]
Please advise how you are supposed to block a shot in that
situation. Having played over 700 games at a decent level and
never once having been cautioned, in spite of being a defender,
I must have been getting away with murder for my 42 year playing
career. I suppose that I was lucky in playing in an era when
normal contact was accepted as just that and there was no
outside interference because we all accepted the decisions by
the officials, even if we didn't agree with every one.
JUst to clarify, the defender is actually side on to the ball
and it is only because Kane's leg is bent in trying to shoot
that he kicked the defender,
[/quote]
He didn't block the shot. The attacker played the ball. He
didn't touch the ball. He went in studs first, missed the ball,
and put his studs into the attacker's foot.
Having seen plenty of football from the 70s and 80s, you never
being cautioned does not surprise me in the least. Thankfully,
the game has changed.
[/quote]
Did you play in the 70s and 80s at any decent level? Just
curious, because the game is still the same and I played through
to 2004 without ever being cautioned, I was also officiating at
a lower level in those days as well and since 2004, with
essentailly the same Laws of the Game.
QUestion which is still relevant is which player actuall kicked
his opponent. IS kickking your opponent not an offence these
days?
#Post#: 81197--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: Whistleblower Date: July 10, 2024, 5:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thought Zwayer was quite average, nothing more or less than that
though he seems to have a good rapport with the players. Penalty
was debatable ( I lean to thinking not ) but the protocol for
VAR involvement ( a clear and obvious error ) was trashed.
Imagine the howls of protest if that decision had gone against
England. Most 50:50 decisions went to England.
There are two scenarios; one is that England's name is on this
trophy and so by a mixture of good fortune and fairly uninspired
football but with crucial goals scored, the victory will be
theirs or the luck will run out and hubris will lead to nemesis.
Sunday evening will tell us. I shall be in Paris watching the
match. I wonder who the French will be supporting ?
#Post#: 81198--------------------------------------------------
Re: Felix Zwayer England Netherlands
By: ARF Date: July 10, 2024, 5:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ref25 link=topic=6122.msg81195#msg81195
date=1720649644]
If the defender was moving some way towards the attacker as part
of the charge down / block then I would understand it and say
maybe you run the risk.
[/quote]
HTML https://x.com/i/status/1811119292533883241
- go to 36 seconds
and watch the defender. [emoji108]
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