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#Post#: 80061--------------------------------------------------
Random referees to identify !
DIR By: Timbo
Date: May 26, 2024, 8:33 am
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This is an interesting article in itself, but there are also a
couple of photographs therein that merit further attention :-
HTML https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tees-69037557
Who are the referees shown therein ?
#Post#: 80090--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random referees to identify !
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: May 27, 2024, 1:09 pm
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As you say, an interesting article on a 'hot topic' in the
footballing world. I have no real idea on the referees,
certainly not the English referee with his back to the camera.
The referee in the youth tournament bears a passing resemblance
to a young Sandor Puhl from Hungary but the timing is not really
right, or maybe he is a German, and the linesman on the left
could be Italian but no idea who.
#Post#: 80190--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random referees to identify !
DIR By: Timbo
Date: June 2, 2024, 6:04 am
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The English referee with his back to the camera does have quite
a distinctive stance - hopefully someone will recognise him from
that.
In the youth game, is it my imagination or is the referee
wearing spectacles ? His all-black tunic with no badge reminded
me of the kit worn by referees from the USSR. The linesman on
the left as we look had a badge and different socks so might be
from a different country ?
#Post#: 80199--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random referees to identify !
DIR By: John Treleven
Date: June 2, 2024, 5:04 pm
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Some "detective" work leads me to think that the "toss up"
photo' is of Kurt Tschenscher of Germany
It is the group match played on Sunday 2nd April 1961 between
Portugal and England at the Jose Alvalande Stadium in Lisbon in
the U.E.F.A. Youth tournament. Portugal won 4-0 and went on to
win the tournament.
William "Bill" Gates then of Spennymoor was the England
centre-half and captain and looks to be holding a Portuguese
pennant.
It would also explain the linesmen, who I do not know, being
from different nations.
They were probably from the 13 competing nations - Austria,
Belgium, England, France, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Poland,
Portugal, Romania, Spain, Turkey and West Germany.
East Germany, Hungary and Yugoslavia withdrew late and were not
replaced.
The linesman on the left possibly has a Spanish badge, with its
distinctive crown, on his shirt.
#Post#: 80285--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random referees to identify !
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: June 10, 2024, 4:40 am
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An interesting and informative post, thank you JT. If this is
Kurt, then he would have been 32/33 at the time of this
tournament, so quite possibly him and fits in with my thought
that he looked German. The photo does not accord particularly
with later shots of Kurt on Google, but this photo was taken a
lot earlier before Kurt stepped on the international stage
(World Cup finals in 1966 and 1970 and European Cup Final in
1967), so again could be Kurt. I have to say I'm surprised that
a referee at an international tournament could be allowed to
take charge of a match without sporting any sort of national
badge. Talking German, from what I can see of the linesman who
is largely hidden from view, could it be Rudolf Kreitlein by any
chance? Or maybe a bit tall for the 'brave little German tailor'
of Wembley 1966 fame / infamy. The other linesman has a Spanish
or Italian look about him but no idea who.
The English referee with his back to the camera, it would be
good to know who Boro's opponents were. I certainly don't
recognise anyone in the photo and the location could be anywhere
with standing room in view on the terraces. Notice the white
turnups on the socks and the referee with exactly the same angle
of view as his linesman on the left flank. Good for confirming
goal line incidents and most offsides (bar 'pantomime - he's
behind you' offsides), but not something you see now.
#Post#: 80295--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random referees to identify !
DIR By: John Treleven
Date: June 11, 2024, 2:46 am
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The 1961 linesmen were -
Jose-Maria Ortiz de Mendibil (Spain) and Pieter-Paulus Roomer
(Netherlands) (the latter partially hidden)
#Post#: 80297--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random referees to identify !
DIR By: John Treleven
Date: June 11, 2024, 4:55 am
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To start on the other picture with Gates heading away an
opposition corner that has eluded his GK (to the left) on a warm
afternoon
It would help narrow it down if the GK and/or other
Middlesbrough defender on the line can be identified (or any of
the opponents)
Gates played 328 league and cup games for Middlesbrough 1961-62
to 1973-74
They were played on 60 different grounds -
157 Middlesbrough, 9 Millwall, 8 Hull, 7 Bristol C., Carlisle,
Charlton, Swindon, 6 Cardiff, Huddersfield, 6 Oxford, 5 Norwich,
4 Blackpool, Bury,
Rotherham,
Leyton O., Portsmouth, Preston, Queen's Park Rangers, Sheffield
U., Tottenham, 2 Birmingham, Bolton, Brighton, Burnley,
Colchester, Crystal Palace, Ipswich, Leicester, Northampton,
Plymouth, Sheffield W., Watford, York City, 1 Bournemouth,
Chelsea, Coventry City, Darlington, Doncaster, Everton, Grimsby,
Leeds, Mansfield, Nottingham F., Oldham, Peterborough,
Scunthorpe, Shrewsbury, Southampton, Stoke, Swansea,
Wolverhampton W. Workington
Middlesbrough's 9 goalkeepers during his career were -
Esmond Million (4) 61-2, Bob Appleby (80) 61-2 to 66-7, Arthur
Lightening (18) 62-3, Morris Emmerson (13) 62-3, Eddie Connachan
(105) 63-4 to 65-6, Des McPartland (40) 64-5 to 67-8, Willie
Whigham (210) 66-7 to 71-2, Maurice Short (19) 67-8 to 69-0, Jim
Platt (131) 71-2 to 73-4
My first impresion is that it at Charlton, the South-East
corner, looking at the vast East terrace
If so Gates' matches there were 14 Oct 61, 30 Jan 65 (F.A.Cup),
12 Mch 66, 7 Oct 67, 5 Apr 69, 13 Mch 71, 11 Spt 71
with 5 Apr 69 and 11 Spt 71 being the most likely for a
"shirtleeves" afternoon
The referees were respectively -
Peter Brandwood, Ken Seddon, Norman Burtenshaw, Reg Pritchard,
Jack Taylor, Ray Johnson and Bill Hall
There are photo's currently on ebay for the 11 Spt 71 match and
it was indeed a shirtleeves afternoon but the kits were
different so it was not that match.
The Charlton (if it is them) kit indicates it is the 14 Oct 61
match with Peter Brandwood the referee
#Post#: 80311--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random referees to identify !
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: June 13, 2024, 9:08 am
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Some interesting detective work here, thank you JT. I've done my
own spot of delving. I think the goalie is Bob Appleby whose
death (+ picture) has recently been announced, and if it is,
this narrows it down to 1961 to 1966. He certainly played in the
match at Charlton in October 1961, with Gates listed as a
'defender'. Of the referees noted, I don't think I ever saw
Norman Burtenshaw or Jack Taylor with sleeves rolled up. Ray
Johnson was certainly dark-haired but he came on the scene a bit
later. I don't know any of the other referees, including Peter
Brandwood. The ground could certainly be The Valley with its
vast terraces and an attendance of just over 12,000, hence the
open spaces which can be seen in the photo. There are many
jackets and ties on display, suggesting people coming straight
from Saturday morning work, and even a couple of school blazers
and caps, and this suggests to me a Southern ground, probably
around the London area. (For the sake of clarity, I am not
suggesting for a moment that it would have been all clogs and
cloth caps if it had been a Northern ground!) In a nutshell JT,
I am agreeing with you that it could be Peter Brandwood (1956 -
66) from the West Midlands refereeing Charlton v Boro at The
Valley in Oct 1961. A bit like 'Cluedo'! Now all we need is for
someone with knowledge of Peter to shoot us down by confirming
that he was bald or white-haired or an early Mr Motivator!
#Post#: 80317--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random referees to identify !
DIR By: John Treleven
Date: June 13, 2024, 10:21 pm
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HTML https://x.com/FortheR93378109/status/1226073662463397888
Peter Brandwood front right
#Post#: 80320--------------------------------------------------
Re: Random referees to identify !
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: June 14, 2024, 4:41 am
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--- Quote from: John Treleven link ---
>
>
HTML https://x.com/FortheR93378109/status/1226073662463397888
>
> Peter Brandwood front right
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry, can't access the photos as I don't subscribe to X. Could
it be Peter in the Boro photo or do we need to start again?
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