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#Post#: 79821--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: MCPridz
Date: May 16, 2024, 2:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Me and my family were debating this massively last night, and I
came up with the suggestion off the by not being over the
referees from countries that it works in to train our referees
on how to use var correctly, but they just said it won’t happen
because it costs to much money, but surely by bringing them over
training our referees, we then get better decisions on and off
field and we won’t be debating marginal or wrong l decisions
week in and week out, every where else can get it right by we
can’t, wears the best league in the world but have the worse var
system in the world, surely this can be a solution to our
problem
#Post#: 79822--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
Date: May 16, 2024, 3:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Stickwhistler link ---
>
> Problem with big screens as I understand it is that there are
no screens available for the fans at either Anfield or Old
Trafford. Can you show the crowd in the other 18 grounds but not
in those 2 or does it have to wait unitl screens are available
at all grounds. Would the audio between ref and VAR help for the
crowds? My personal view is that it would not - just make the
situation worse.
>
--- End Quote ---
But we already have the absurd situation where the FA Cup is
played with some matches having VAR and others not. If some have
screens and others don't, what difference does it make?
#Post#: 79825--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: Ref Watcher
Date: May 16, 2024, 4:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Stickwhistler link ---
>
> Problem with big screens as I understand it is that there are
no screens available for the fans at either Anfield or Old
Trafford.
>
--- End Quote ---
There is a simple solution to this. Clubs all the way down the
pyramid are required to jump through a variety of (often
farcical) hoops under the guise of ground grading regulations or
they get demoted to a level for which their ground is considered
suitable. Simply mandate that all clubs in the Premier League
are required to have an appropriate screen. It won't happen of
course. No one would dare treat these teams and their
supporters in the way that they would a team playing at Step
Six.
#Post#: 79826--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: Claretman
Date: May 16, 2024, 4:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Stickwhistler link ---
>
> Problem with big screens as I understand it is that there are
no screens available for the fans at either Anfield or Old
Trafford. Can you show the crowd in the other 18 grounds but not
in those 2 or does it have to wait unitl screens are available
at all grounds. Would the audio between ref and VAR help for the
crowds? My personal view is that it would not - just make the
situation worse.
>
--- End Quote ---
Surely that is a problem for Manchester United and Liverpool to
sort out should they want to, but i doubt they would want to
lose revenue by losing seats to facilitate big screens.
#Post#: 79829--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: May 16, 2024, 4:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MCPridz link ---
>
> Me and my family were debating this massively last night, and
I came up with the suggestion off the by not being over the
referees from countries that it works in to train our referees
on how to use var correctly, but they just said it won’t happen
because it costs to much money, but surely by bringing them over
training our referees, we then get better decisions on and off
field and we won’t be debating marginal or wrong l decisions
week in and week out, every where else can get it right by we
can’t, wears the best league in the world but have the worse var
system in the world, surely this can be a solution to our
problem
>
--- End Quote ---
What a shame, I have been going to football for 72 seasons and
the debate has always been there week in and week out ---long
before VAR nut, sadly, even more since the introduction of VAR.
I would also suggest that "every where else can get it
right......" is way off the mark.
It's a pity that Sid James, Kenneth Williams, Barbara Windsor
are still not around ----I think that I would have enjoyed
"Carry On VAR"
#Post#: 79831--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: bmb
Date: May 16, 2024, 5:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DBLTFC link ---
>
> I think the brackets in the title to this thread is important,
as it’s clearly a reactionary motion.
>
> It clearly has been raised by the shareholders as Wolves are a
shareholder just like the other 19 clubs. They have as much as a
right as anyone to raise motions up and vote… doesn’t mean the
other clubs have to agree.
>
--- End Quote ---
We had our Trust & Club board to board meeting last night & the
CEO said they had seen the statement by Wolves but no-one from
the PL or Wolves has spoken to our club about it to seek their
views. I expect that will happen between now and the meeting in
June. Wolves have tabled the motion but seemingly haven't sought
the views of other clubs before doing so or at least not my
club! It wasn't discussed at the most recent stakeholders
meeting last week.
Personally I dislike VAR for many of the reasons stated in
Wolves statement. I can also see how useful it can be when it is
implemented correctly & I think that is where the PL go wrong
with it. The PL have implemented VAR in a slightly different way
to UEFA, being the "best" league and wanting to do it their own
way because of that! The PL way does not work anywhere near as
well as the FIFA/UEFA way does. Even the NBI does it better than
the PL but they have implemented it UEFAs way. UEFAs way works
better as is shown in the CL, EL, ConfL & Euros. UEFA & FIFA
have the same implementation as seen at the WC. It's not perfect
even when done correctly but it's better than we are getting.
FIFA & UEFA have made it clear it is here to stay at the top
levels and I think our clubs in Europe will be disadvantaged if
it is scrapped in the PL and we know it will affect our FIFA
refs in terms of appointments. As much as I dislike it
personally I think it the implementation of it that is wrong
more than anything. SAOT will help to a degree when that comes
into force but again only if implemented correctly. My view is
the PL & PGMOL need to accept that their implementation simply
isn't working as efficiently and effectively as everywhere else,
swallow their pride and bring the PL in line with UEFA &
everywhere else. We need to poach Kyros Vassaras, Alex Deaconu
and Costas Kapitanis and have them train our VARs the UEFA way,
imo.
#Post#: 79836--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: May 16, 2024, 5:52 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Here's some changes I'd like to see/consider:
1. Introduce semi-automated offside as soon as possible as I
think that would really make offside process more efficient.
Ideally they would find a way to quickly communicate the likely
decision so everyone knows pretty much straight away.
2. Improve communication/transparency further - I think going
down route of in-stadium announcements would be a good step and
they should release more post-match audio. I'd ideally like to
see them go down a system similar to rugby where everything is
shown on big screen and audio is played out live but I believe
both of those would need IFAB approval (and I think IFAB deserve
a lot of blame for VAR problems.)
3. I think bar for VAR intervention is too high in PL and they
need to drop clear and obvious a bit. If you look at judgements
of Premier League panel it seems there are much more missed VAR
interventions as opposed to incorrect ones. (Ideally I'd go more
down a system of rugby where the referee has much more scope to
look at major incidents but there's no pressure to change their
decision and they can just say they are happy with their
decision but obviously that would require a complete change of
VAR approach.)
4. Would it be beneficial to have a dedicated panel of VARs and
would this be practical to implement? Would it be useful to
widen FA Cup approach of having an extra VAR referee in room?
I don't really support the idea of a challenge system as I think
teams would just use up challenges because they were there and
you'd end up with missed incidents because a team didn't appeal
or didn't have a challenge left - there'd also be increased
implications of VAR mistakes as it would result in lost
challenges.
#Post#: 79838--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
Date: May 16, 2024, 6:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MCPridz link ---
>
> Me and my family were debating this massively last night, and
I came up with the suggestion off the by not being over the
referees from countries that it works in to train our referees
on how to use var correctly, but they just said it won’t happen
because it costs to much money, but surely by bringing them over
training our referees, we then get better decisions on and off
field and we won’t be debating marginal or wrong l decisions
week in and week out, every where else can get it right by we
can’t, wears the best league in the world but have the worse var
system in the world, surely this can be a solution to our
problem
>
--- End Quote ---
I would suggest that you simply aren't aware of the huge
controversies in Spain, Italy and Germany caused by VAR because
you don't live there and don't follow a team to the same extent
that you do in the UK.
There are monumental issues with VAR wherever it is implemented
- not due to the officials but due to what VAR is (as opposed to
what fans think it is).
Technology is brilliant for matters of fact (goalline tech and
automated offsides in football), but atrocious for subjective
decisions. It just cannot work, and it has made it much worse
for officials and fans IMO.
#Post#: 79849--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: Leggy
Date: May 16, 2024, 11:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The vote is not going to get the necessary majority. If it
were, there would be a lot of SG! officials twiddling their
thumbs next season.
Part of Wolves' argument is that the cost of VAR (which is not
insignificant until you remember how much they pay their
players) is not justified, given the marginal increase in the
percentage of correct decisions. In business terms the "return
on investment" is not high enough.
But let's be honest here, all players and managers really want
is for more VAR decisions to go their way; they never complain
when a dodgy VAR decision goes their way. Take us all back to
pre-VAR days and all players and managers wanted was more
decisions to go their way; they never complained when it a dodgy
referees' decision went their way.
The previous two sentences are almost identical; with "VAR"
being replaced by "referee".
Not much has changed, has it?
#Post#: 79861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Clubs vote to scrap var(lead by wolves)
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: May 17, 2024, 1:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> Here's some changes I'd like to see/consider:
>
> 1. Introduce semi-automated offside as soon as possible as I
think that would really make offside process more efficient.
Ideally they would find a way to quickly communicate the likely
decision so everyone knows pretty much straight away.
>
> 2. Improve communication/transparency further - I think going
down route of in-stadium announcements would be a good step and
they should release more post-match audio. I'd ideally like to
see them go down a system similar to rugby where everything is
shown on big screen and audio is played out live but I believe
both of those would need IFAB approval (and I think IFAB deserve
a lot of blame for VAR problems.)
>
> 3. I think bar for VAR intervention is too high in PL and they
need to drop clear and obvious a bit. If you look at judgements
of Premier League panel it seems there are much more missed VAR
interventions as opposed to incorrect ones. (Ideally I'd go more
down a system of rugby where the referee has much more scope to
look at major incidents but there's no pressure to change their
decision and they can just say they are happy with their
decision but obviously that would require a complete change of
VAR approach.)
>
> 4. Would it be beneficial to have a dedicated panel of VARs
and would this be practical to implement? Would it be useful to
widen FA Cup approach of having an extra VAR referee in room?
>
> I don't really support the idea of a challenge system as I
think teams would just use up challenges because they were there
and you'd end up with missed incidents because a team didn't
appeal or didn't have a challenge left - there'd also be
increased implications of VAR mistakes as it would result in
lost challenges.
>
--- End Quote ---
I’d say these are all worthwhile changes to try:
1. Would deal with one of the most common issues
2. I’ve wanted more openness of what goes on in decision making
processes, it helps humanise people and would likely help reduce
the discussion around referees being corrupt/hate my team etc, I
do think it may amplify a small minority what algorithms would
push their negative/hateful comments further the only issue
3. Agree again an error is an error and needs fixing we
shouldn’t be saying it’s wrong but is it wrong enough.
4. I do think this would help they are very different roles and
although there are a lot of similarities require different
skills, there are a lot of discussions here about how referees
have interacted with players big for on the field but not key
for var roles that are more processing information efficiently.
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