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#Post#: 79158--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Spurs v Arsenal
DIR By: JMB1992
Date: April 29, 2024, 1:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
>
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5963.msg79093#msg79093
date=1714332183]
> Poor day at the office for Oliver, let way too much go and
didn’t add the correct second half stoppage time on, 6 minutes
for all of the time wasting, substitutions and VAR interventions
was bizarre considering he kept pointing to his watch, clearly
didn’t want the hassle.
>
> Penalty, a stone wall one, missed on field by all officials
somehow. Somehow only 3 players booked when there were many
cynical stoppages and Arsenal, particularly from Arsenal in the
second half it has to be said. Richarlison’s protestations, no
matter how correct, should have led to a booking also.
>
> Has anyone else actually seen the controversially disallowed
equaliser in slow motion by the way? Doesn’t Tomiyasu kick it
against Gabriel, and is therefore deemed deliberate (ie. not a
deflection)? Have had a twitter search, this seems to show it?
HTML https://twitter.com/axelthfc/status/1784639108444242155/video/1
>
> To me that’s not offside in a million years? It’s literally
kicked by Tomiyasu onto his own player, no?
>
--- End Quote ---
Law 11 was amended in season 2022-2023. The disallowed goal is
an excellent training clip for a correct offside.
The aspects according to the Laws of the Game are:
- The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear
view of it
The ball was not moving quickly
The direction of the ball was not unexpected
The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it
was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a
movement that achieved limited contact/control
A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the
air
-
Separately, IFAB/UEFA guidance talks about 'control' and whether
a player is being challenged/under pressure from opponent(s).
Very clearly the Arsenal player's movement was instinctive, the
ball was played in at pace (it's quite literally a shot), and
there is zero opportunity for the defender to make a controlled
and 'deliberate' play on the ball.
I'd go further to say that this is a perfect example of exactly
why the Law was changed. 2 years ago this would have been
allowed and football really didn't like it (even if for
referees, it was easier to implement).
[/quote]
It’s a clear controlled and deliberate kick from Tomiyasu
though, and he kicks it against Gabriel. Seems extremely harsh
to me, am sure had it been the other way round we wouldn’t have
heard the end of it from a certain Arteta…. To most fans
watching this, seems a bizarre rule and a clear separate phase,
but rules are rules
🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
#Post#: 79160--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Spurs v Arsenal
DIR By: JMB1992
Date: April 29, 2024, 1:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> [quote author=MCPridz link=topic=5963.msg79074#msg79074
date=1714317346]
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=5963.msg79073#msg79073
date=1714317022]
> [quote author=takethejag link=topic=5963.msg79071#msg79071
date=1714315994]
> [quote author=TheThingFromLewes
link=topic=5963.msg79070#msg79070 date=1714315865]
> Very surprised someone of the calibre of Oliver has missed
that stone wall penalty when Rice kicked through the Spurs
player.
>
> Has let a lot of things go this afternoon and the cards were
only out in the latter stages.
>
--- End Quote ---
Must've been the quickest ever VAR check/OFR? At least the
brilliant (and bespectacled) Jarred Gillett wasn't afraid to
tell Michael he'd missed a clanger.
[/quote]
[/quote]
Think we got lucky there as that was a penalty, and spurs could
of had one in the first half too had Kuluveski not stayed on his
feet think that cost him
[/quote]
Initially i thought Kulusevski kicked his own heel, having said
that i have seen pens given when that happens.
[/quote]
We have seen less given to other top teams this season for sure
for the smallest of trips. For me though the Kulusevski one
wasn’t quite enough for a penalty. Maddison one straight away
after definitely wasn’t enough either, Spurs fans appealed for
that one too but had a better case with the first one.
Mr Oliver doesn’t exactly go down well at this stadium does he?!
😬😬
#Post#: 79178--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Spurs v Arsenal
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: April 29, 2024, 6:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JMB1992 link ---
>
> [quote author=Affy_Moose link=topic=5963.msg79115#msg79115
date=1714389143]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5963.msg79093#msg79093
date=1714332183]
> Poor day at the office for Oliver, let way too much go and
didn’t add the correct second half stoppage time on, 6 minutes
for all of the time wasting, substitutions and VAR interventions
was bizarre considering he kept pointing to his watch, clearly
didn’t want the hassle.
>
> Penalty, a stone wall one, missed on field by all officials
somehow. Somehow only 3 players booked when there were many
cynical stoppages and Arsenal, particularly from Arsenal in the
second half it has to be said. Richarlison’s protestations, no
matter how correct, should have led to a booking also.
>
> Has anyone else actually seen the controversially disallowed
equaliser in slow motion by the way? Doesn’t Tomiyasu kick it
against Gabriel, and is therefore deemed deliberate (ie. not a
deflection)? Have had a twitter search, this seems to show it?
HTML https://twitter.com/axelthfc/status/1784639108444242155/video/1
>
> To me that’s not offside in a million years? It’s literally
kicked by Tomiyasu onto his own player, no?
>
--- End Quote ---
Law 11 was amended in season 2022-2023. The disallowed goal is
an excellent training clip for a correct offside.
The aspects according to the Laws of the Game are:
- The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear
view of it
The ball was not moving quickly
The direction of the ball was not unexpected
The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it
was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a
movement that achieved limited contact/control
A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the
air
-
Separately, IFAB/UEFA guidance talks about 'control' and whether
a player is being challenged/under pressure from opponent(s).
Very clearly the Arsenal player's movement was instinctive, the
ball was played in at pace (it's quite literally a shot), and
there is zero opportunity for the defender to make a controlled
and 'deliberate' play on the ball.
I'd go further to say that this is a perfect example of exactly
why the Law was changed. 2 years ago this would have been
allowed and football really didn't like it (even if for
referees, it was easier to implement).
[/quote]
It’s a clear controlled and deliberate kick from Tomiyasu
though, and he kicks it against Gabriel. Seems extremely harsh
to me, am sure had it been the other way round we wouldn’t have
heard the end of it from a certain Arteta…. To most fans
watching this, seems a bizarre rule and a clear separate phase,
but rules are rules
🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
[/quote]
The ‘harshness’ was the previous iteration which effectively
gave the attacking team a ‘gotcha’ if a defender so much as
attempted to play a ball deliberately. Just look at the Italy v
Spain game in the semi final (?) of the previous UNL, and
Germany v England of last UNL qualifying to see why people just
did not like Law 11.
It’s a deliberate kick, but there is zero control and it’s
entirely instinctive. Fans, pundits, and coaches really did not
like the old version of Law 11, and so far, the new application
has caused very little dissent. This example, I’d suggest,
really only animates affected fans. Most neutral observers
don’t want a return to the old Law 11 where almost any swing of
a boot automatically played an attacker onside.
#Post#: 79228--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Spurs v Arsenal
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: April 30, 2024, 1:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Affy_Moose link ---
>
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5963.msg79158#msg79158
date=1714414663]
> [quote author=Affy_Moose link=topic=5963.msg79115#msg79115
date=1714389143]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5963.msg79093#msg79093
date=1714332183]
> Poor day at the office for Oliver, let way too much go and
didn’t add the correct second half stoppage time on, 6 minutes
for all of the time wasting, substitutions and VAR interventions
was bizarre considering he kept pointing to his watch, clearly
didn’t want the hassle.
>
> Penalty, a stone wall one, missed on field by all officials
somehow. Somehow only 3 players booked when there were many
cynical stoppages and Arsenal, particularly from Arsenal in the
second half it has to be said. Richarlison’s protestations, no
matter how correct, should have led to a booking also.
>
> Has anyone else actually seen the controversially disallowed
equaliser in slow motion by the way? Doesn’t Tomiyasu kick it
against Gabriel, and is therefore deemed deliberate (ie. not a
deflection)? Have had a twitter search, this seems to show it?
HTML https://twitter.com/axelthfc/status/1784639108444242155/video/1
>
> To me that’s not offside in a million years? It’s literally
kicked by Tomiyasu onto his own player, no?
>
--- End Quote ---
Law 11 was amended in season 2022-2023. The disallowed goal is
an excellent training clip for a correct offside.
The aspects according to the Laws of the Game are:
- The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear
view of it
The ball was not moving quickly
The direction of the ball was not unexpected
The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it
was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a
movement that achieved limited contact/control
A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the
air
-
Separately, IFAB/UEFA guidance talks about 'control' and whether
a player is being challenged/under pressure from opponent(s).
Very clearly the Arsenal player's movement was instinctive, the
ball was played in at pace (it's quite literally a shot), and
there is zero opportunity for the defender to make a controlled
and 'deliberate' play on the ball.
I'd go further to say that this is a perfect example of exactly
why the Law was changed. 2 years ago this would have been
allowed and football really didn't like it (even if for
referees, it was easier to implement).
[/quote]
It’s a clear controlled and deliberate kick from Tomiyasu
though, and he kicks it against Gabriel. Seems extremely harsh
to me, am sure had it been the other way round we wouldn’t have
heard the end of it from a certain Arteta…. To most fans
watching this, seems a bizarre rule and a clear separate phase,
but rules are rules
🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
[/quote]
The ‘harshness’ was the previous iteration which effectively
gave the attacking team a ‘gotcha’ if a defender so much as
attempted to play a ball deliberately. Just look at the Italy v
Spain game in the semi final (?) of the previous UNL, and
Germany v England of last UNL qualifying to see why people just
did not like Law 11.
It’s a deliberate kick, but there is zero control and it’s
entirely instinctive. Fans, pundits, and coaches really did not
like the old version of Law 11, and so far, the new application
has caused very little dissent. This example, I’d suggest,
really only animates affected fans. Most neutral observers
don’t want a return to the old Law 11 where almost any swing of
a boot automatically played an attacker onside.
[/quote]
The nonsense in this case is that in reality it is all one phase
of play and he only got the ball (ahead of the defenders) due to
being in an offside position on the original shot.
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