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#Post#: 78874--------------------------------------------------
Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: bmb
Date: April 24, 2024, 4:30 pm
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Firstly it was good to see Stuart Attwell walking out in black,
looking focused and confident after what must have been a very
stressful week so far. I know from old he is a very strong and
determined young man but even so was glad to see he's not
letting it get to him.
Onto the game - first half not sure there were any decisions to
make and certainly no controversies or talking points. 2nd half
however was a really tough one for team ref. AFCB had 3 half
hearted pen shouts - Christie shame on you for your shout! None
of them were anywhere close to being a foul let alone a penalty
so 3 calls right, I'll not call them big calls because they were
more "may as well ask but knowing the answer would be no way
behave answers" than serious appeals.
Wolves disallowed goal, I have a lot of sympathy for them. It
was a clear foul on Kluivert, that is no doubt, their player
whacked him across the face, not intentionally, but after the
ball had gone. In that they can't complain. However, I'm in 2
minds about if it impacted the actual goal. On the one hand yes,
it would have been a defensive free kick if it hadn't been
missed but on the other hand it felt like a lot happened between
that foul and the goal being scored. Kluivert & the Wolves
player not involved in any of it because they were too far away
from play. I felt it not wrong per se but very harsh. I do think
I would feel the same had it been at the other end - I would
certainly have understood the why at least. I think it was right
for VAR to send Stuart to the monitor though - the call had to
come from him.
Milos red card - can't complain. He threw himself into a tackle,
both feet off the ground, studs up, at speed and takes the
player out. I'm not convinced VAR would have intervened had the
card been yellow. It was a stupid, irresponsible tackle and a
red would/should not be overturned on appeal. But come on it was
Milos... [emoji24]
The Wolves fans were questioning his identity quite vocally -
they appeared to think his name was Wayne Kerr or something
similar! Can understand their frustrations to a degree.
Wolves 2nd disallowed goal was offside. AR called it and
confirmed by VAR. Disappointing for them I am sure but a correct
call.
One thing I will say is any young or inexperienced ref who might
be a bit unsure how to deal effectively with a head injury,
watch how he deals with them - there were 2 in this game & the
way Stuart Attwell dealt with both was superb. Firstly Milos,
Wolves free kick, Milos had his arms behind his back & took the
ball at full speed right to the face - looked to be chin area
more than anything but he dropped like a lead balloon. Stuart
had halted play and was over to him checking on him almost
before he'd actually hit the deck. Milos was showing him it was
lower face but he still wanted it all checked. 2nd one was
Christie took a swung arm to the face, accidental, challenging
for the ball but again it was heck of a whack and he was there
in less than a second checking on him. He did speak to Kluivert
as well having checked the monitor when he disallowed the goal.
Very quick and very proactive in dealing with potential head
injuries and noticeably so.
Wolves fans are not going to be happy. 2 disallowed goals but 1
was very correct and the other like I said not wrong per se but
felt very harsh.
#Post#: 78877--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: Pm2
Date: April 24, 2024, 4:40 pm
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Didn’t see it but good to hear he had a good game after having a
few hard days I’d imagine.
#Post#: 78878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
Date: April 24, 2024, 5:00 pm
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Again it’s the inconsistencies inherent in VAR for me.
I see no impact on the goal in the incident (no appeal from the
Bournemouth players), you struggle to even see why it was
disallowed until you know what you are looking for!
Compare this to the blatant foul by Gabriel last night on
Madueke, which did impact on the goal as it gave Arsenal the
ball and you don’t really have a clue what is going on from game
to game.
#Post#: 78879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: bmb
Date: April 24, 2024, 5:09 pm
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--- Quote from: Marvin Grapevine link ---
>
> Again it’s the inconsistencies inherent in VAR for me.
>
> I see no impact on the goal in the incident (no appeal from
the Bournemouth players), you struggle to even see why it was
disallowed until you know what you are looking for!
>
--- End Quote ---
Can't disagree with that. To be fair it was a good spot by VAR
and it was a clear foul that can't be disputed. It didn't impact
the goal itself, imo, as an AFCB fan. The only thing you can say
was it was enough of a foul to have warranted a free kick & YC
so there would have not been that particular shot on goal had it
been given and there was no stoppage in play between it and the
goal. I say that remembering a situation a few years ago when we
scored a goal & during the VAR check not only was the goal
disallowed but a penalty was given against us - from 1-1 to 0-2
in the space of a second!! Don't recall who the game was against
but the penalty was given against Smudge! I didn't watch any
games last night so can't comment on the Gabriel incident.
#Post#: 78881--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: April 24, 2024, 10:15 pm
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The disallowed goal definitely shows var in all it’s
inconsistent glory
#Post#: 78882--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: Ivanhoe
Date: April 25, 2024, 1:18 am
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VAR re-refereeing the game despite what we are told. If the on
field officials aren't giving a free kick I cannot see why VAR
would get involved, it certainly doesn't in 99% of incidents,
corner kicks being the best example. Giving random decisions
like this does the game no favours.
#Post#: 78884--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: Tonydent
Date: April 25, 2024, 2:16 am
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Given the majority of refereeing is about subjective decision
making - what do people see as the solution for these
(inevitable) VAR inconsistencies?
#Post#: 78887--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: bmb
Date: April 25, 2024, 2:28 am
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--- Quote from: Tonydent link ---
>
> Given the majority of refereeing is about subjective decision
making - what do people see as the solution for these
(inevitable) VAR inconsistencies?
>
--- End Quote ---
Personally I would scrap VAR and go back to using AARs behind
the goal watching for penalty incidents. GLT would cover the
ball over the line scenario so they could concentrate on the
penalty area.
We had them in the Hungarian league and they worked so well and
very efficiently. Then we were forced into replacing them with
VAR.
#Post#: 78888--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: April 25, 2024, 3:20 am
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--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Tonydent link=topic=5953.msg78884#msg78884
date=1714029401]
> Given the majority of refereeing is about subjective decision
making - what do people see as the solution for these
(inevitable) VAR inconsistencies?
>
--- End Quote ---
Personally I would scrap VAR and go back to using AARs behind
the goal watching for penalty incidents. GLT would cover the
ball over the line scenario so they could concentrate on the
penalty area.
We had them in the Hungarian league and they worked so well and
very efficiently. Then we were forced into replacing them with
VAR.
[/quote]
Yes, I recall Clattenburg and Atkinson at Euro16 including
Taylor and Oliver as AARs. But under the current laws and
interpretations of handball, wouldn't they still have the same
problem whether to advise a penalty, or whether contact was
sufficient for a foul in the area, if the referee missed it.
#Post#: 78889--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wolves v AFCB - Stuart Attwell
DIR By: bmb
Date: April 25, 2024, 5:45 am
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--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> [quote author=bmb link=topic=5953.msg78887#msg78887
date=1714030107]
> [quote author=Tonydent link=topic=5953.msg78884#msg78884
date=1714029401]
> Given the majority of refereeing is about subjective decision
making - what do people see as the solution for these
(inevitable) VAR inconsistencies?
>
--- End Quote ---
Personally I would scrap VAR and go back to using AARs behind
the goal watching for penalty incidents. GLT would cover the
ball over the line scenario so they could concentrate on the
penalty area.
We had them in the Hungarian league and they worked so well and
very efficiently. Then we were forced into replacing them with
VAR.
[/quote]
Yes, I recall Clattenburg and Atkinson at Euro16 including
Taylor and Oliver as AARs. But under the current laws and
interpretations of handball, wouldn't they still have the same
problem whether to advise a penalty, or whether contact was
sufficient for a foul in the area, if the referee missed it.
[/quote]
I think whatever system is used comes with pros and cons. The
biggest issue is that the majority of decisions are subjective
and that won't change whatever system is in use and we all know
with subjective it's a personal tolerance, feeling and view
point and the AAR/VAR may have a different opinion to the
referee. That is where VAR can work better because at least an
on field referee can review their decision on a monitor, get a
clearer view and make his mind up if he stands by his decision
or if he misjudged it. I just found AARs worked so well in our
domestic league, we were one of the trial leagues and kept them,
they tried to keep teams together and they developed that
closeness and with it the more smooth teamwork that you see
between refs and ARs who work together constantly. Possibly the
best asset was having the exact opposite view to the referee so
were effectively picking any incidents up that were on the
referees blindside. What the ref was looking at from behind,
they were looking at from the front so things like a sneaky
shove or handball that the referee had no chance of seeing
because it was on their blindside would have been picked up by
the AAR. We had far less controversies with AARs than with VAR.
VAR is here to stay though. The authorities won't give up on it
and certainly won't go back to a method that worked just fine,
we know that. I think as they will persist with it, there
perhaps needs to be more OFR - yes I know that can slow things
down further BUT it gives the decision back to the on-field
referee 100%, Referees, and in fact everyone involved in
football have to be educated and have it constantly reinforced
that an OFR does NOT mean the referee called it wrong but VAR
thinks there may have been something missed and wants the
referee to check and confirm his decision. Referees must be
encouraged and supported to stand by their original decision if
they still feel it to be correct instead of feeling almost
bullied into changing it. I don't mean by VAR necessarily but
pundits, players, managers, fans all expect a decision to be
changed after an OFR. That narrative has to be challenged more
strenuously.
Edited to correct some quite frankly appalling English!
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