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#Post#: 78727--------------------------------------------------
The Blame Game……
DIR By: UmpireIan49
Date: April 22, 2024, 7:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Though I didn’t see the Everton v Nottingham Forest match and
all the hullabaloo surrounding it, I think now that we heading
on a very dangerous path.
We live in a social media driven world of faux outrage and
indignation over just about everything. When it comes to
refereeing, multiply that by the nth degree.
Never been a problem to criticise decisions, after all that is
healthy, to a point. Where that line is crossed is when
perceived bias is involved, most of the time without any
evidence to support it. I often read that dreaded word
corruption without any evidence, usually to satiate the
conspiracy theorists who have too much time on their hands and
launch their vitriol via their keyboards.
What is this expectation that every decision has to be 100%
correct all the time? If there is a marginal decision or a
mistake, then there must be something sinister behind it. Total
and utter nonsense. After all, it’s these conspiracy theorists
that denounce any idea that they should become officials as they
know so damn much about refereeing it seems. And by the way,
most of the clubs in the Premier League have been on the wrong
end of decisions this season, not just those that think the
world is against them.
Football is a fast moving game and decisions have to be made in
a split second. There’s no time to consider the ramifications
when you’re put on the spot. But the dangerously entitled seem
to think everything must be correct, and if it isn’t, then out
comes the ludicrous comments, such as “Why have team A got 12
penalties this season?” or “This referee has something against
us!”. I do read some frankly silly comments on here but I also
enjoy reading the enlightened and informed comments from some
very good correspondents.
By the way, I am dead against technology ruining the game of
football. I think it should be removed and we go back to the old
days….but we will need to regress to get to that point. The path
is clear and officials are now finding that whatever they do,
it’s wrong and when it’s wrong, there must be sinister
undertones. Crazy, crazy world we live in, and it makes me glad
I took up cricket umpiring and not football refereeing back in
1987. Though there are problems in cricket at all levels, there
is a bedrock of respect for officials, I’m afraid that doesn’t
apply much in football.
A sad weekend for refereeing in general.
#Post#: 78733--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Blame Game……
DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
Date: April 22, 2024, 8:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I agree on the technology, and VAR in particular was introduced
on a false premise. Technology is superb for matters of fact, as
we see with goalline tech, and I don't think anyone would want
that removed. It is instantaneous and - one incident aside - it
causes no issues or arguments because the players and managers
know it is objectively right or wrong straight away. I think the
same result can happen with the automated offside technology
which will be a major help as well.
Where it simply cannot work, and indeed makes things worse on
any number of levels, is subjective decisions. It frustrates
players, fans, managers (and likely many officials too!). It was
entirely predictable, all it does is add another layer of
subjectivity and increase the paranoia - you can understand why
players and managers wrongly feel something is dodgy when they
see such inconsistency from a system that apparently was going
to stop such things (not that it ever could do that). It should
be binned immediately and technology restricted for pure matters
of fact.
#Post#: 78736--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Blame Game……
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: April 22, 2024, 8:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I enjoyed both your posts and your thnking is very much along
the same lines as my own.
Sadly, I think that we shall have to endure more changes of Law
and their interpretation in the coming years in FIFA's quest for
the perfect game of football.
We know that it is an impossibility, however, the search will
continue in the quest to overuse technology in areas where it
just shouldn't be ---goal line technology excluded because it
does work.
#Post#: 78785--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Blame Game……
DIR By: PhiltheRef
Date: April 22, 2024, 5:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
As you will recall I am a supporter of a National League Club
(even though we've made the play offs)
Our attendances have increased significantly this season and
enquiring of the 'new' fans why they are watching lower level
football, a major contributory factor, despite the at times
abject levels of Refereeing, is that VAR is not involved
#Post#: 78787--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Blame Game……
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: April 22, 2024, 5:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: UmpireIan49 link ---
>
> Though I didn’t see the Everton v Nottingham Forest match and
all the hullabaloo surrounding it, I think now that we heading
on a very dangerous path.
>
> We live in a social media driven world of faux outrage and
indignation over just about everything. When it comes to
refereeing, multiply that by the nth degree.
>
> Never been a problem to criticise decisions, after all that is
healthy, to a point. Where that line is crossed is when
perceived bias is involved, most of the time without any
evidence to support it. I often read that dreaded word
corruption without any evidence, usually to satiate the
conspiracy theorists who have too much time on their hands and
launch their vitriol via their keyboards.
>
> What is this expectation that every decision has to be 100%
correct all the time? If there is a marginal decision or a
mistake, then there must be something sinister behind it. Total
and utter nonsense. After all, it’s these conspiracy theorists
that denounce any idea that they should become officials as they
know so damn much about refereeing it seems. And by the way,
most of the clubs in the Premier League have been on the wrong
end of decisions this season, not just those that think the
world is against them.
>
> Football is a fast moving game and decisions have to be made
in a split second. There’s no time to consider the ramifications
when you’re put on the spot. But the dangerously entitled seem
to think everything must be correct, and if it isn’t, then out
comes the ludicrous comments, such as “Why have team A got 12
penalties this season?” or “This referee has something against
us!”. I do read some frankly silly comments on here but I also
enjoy reading the enlightened and informed comments from some
very good correspondents.
>
> By the way, I am dead against technology ruining the game of
football. I think it should be removed and we go back to the old
days….but we will need to regress to get to that point. The path
is clear and officials are now finding that whatever they do,
it’s wrong and when it’s wrong, there must be sinister
undertones. Crazy, crazy world we live in, and it makes me glad
I took up cricket umpiring and not football refereeing back in
1987. Though there are problems in cricket at all levels, there
is a bedrock of respect for officials, I’m afraid that doesn’t
apply much in football.
>
> A sad weekend for refereeing in general.
>
--- End Quote ---
Before we entered this social media world I remember frequent
media (not social media) articles questioning how many penalties
Mike Riley or Howard Webb had awarded at Old Trafford or
contrarily how many had not been given to the away sides. It is
nothing new.
#Post#: 78790--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Blame Game……
DIR By: DBLTFC
Date: April 23, 2024, 1:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Agree with a lot of the above… that said, there is something
that the officiating fraternity (that I’ve been part of) in many
sports need to change. The perception I have is that it’s my way
or the highway and as another stakeholder in the game, that
opinion is sacrosanct and cannot be questioned at all.
There needs to be more accountability and officials need to be
demoted for continuous below average performances.
It has felt for a while that the National List is a bit of a
closed shop and consistently over the year certain officials who
never seemed to improve would never be removed from this list.
I think HW understands that and partially the reason why there’s
been a lot more trial officials this season than normal.
#Post#: 78791--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Blame Game……
DIR By: RCG
Date: April 23, 2024, 1:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"There needs to be more accountability and officials need to be
demoted for continuous below average performances."
I totally agree with you. However, when the PL moaned about
standards back in the 90s the rush was to have full time,
professional referees who could focus on training, decision
making etc and get better. The sentiment was correct, the
employment law that supports it, not so much. Hence, it must be
a very robust system to remove someone from their livelihood on
performance. This, I believe, has created a culture where there
is little jeopardy for the individual referees and in fact, its
more likely the management team are less secure, as their jobs
will be incentive based or require success in certain criteria
Then rather than address this properly SG2 was introduced with
another layer of almost ring fenced officials.
It has been good to see mid season promotions, "trial" games and
using NL refs at SG2 level (almost as if it was 1 list!)
Throw in VAR and I have always agreed with Nemesis that being a
top referee will not necessarily make you a top VAR operative,
why not look again at those who are doing that job?
#Post#: 78823--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Blame Game……
DIR By: Leggy
Date: April 23, 2024, 11:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"There needs to be more accountability and officials need to be
demoted for continuous below average performances."
There is, and always has been accountability and demotions for
below average officials. I can clearly recall officials being
removed from both the referee and linesman (as was) list of the
National List (as it was called) in the 1990s. Others may be
able to identify earlier examples.
What we don't know (and probably have never fully known) is the
performance management process that identifies such
under-performers. I am sure the process is far from perfect,
but it cannot be simply that a referee who has attracted
significant negative media (and social media) publicity is poor
and should be demoted. Very few people know the process and
that it is probably as it should be.
As for the nonsense view exposed by Nottingham Forest on Sunday.
Do they really think that the VAR on the game went through the
following thought process: "That looks like a clear penalty for
Nottingham Forest, but I am a Luton Town fan so - sod it - I'll
stay schtum". Also, if a Luton Town fan was willing and able to
influence the outcome of that particular match they would have
probably orchestrated a draw, to keep both sides in the mess
(alongside Luton Town).
Its preposterous.
#Post#: 79340--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Blame Game……
DIR By: Affy_Moose
Date: May 3, 2024, 10:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Leggy link ---
>
> "There needs to be more accountability and officials need to
be demoted for continuous below average performances."
>
> There is, and always has been accountability and demotions for
below average officials. I can clearly recall officials being
removed from both the referee and linesman (as was) list of the
National List (as it was called) in the 1990s. Others may be
able to identify earlier examples.
>
> What we don't know (and probably have never fully known) is
the performance management process that identifies such
under-performers. I am sure the process is far from perfect,
but it cannot be simply that a referee who has attracted
significant negative media (and social media) publicity is poor
and should be demoted. Very few people know the process and
that it is probably as it should be.
>
> As for the nonsense view exposed by Nottingham Forest on
Sunday. Do they really think that the VAR on the game went
through the following thought process: "That looks like a clear
penalty for Nottingham Forest, but I am a Luton Town fan so -
sod it - I'll stay schtum". Also, if a Luton Town fan was
willing and able to influence the outcome of that particular
match they would have probably orchestrated a draw, to keep both
sides in the mess (alongside Luton Town).
>
> Its preposterous.
>
--- End Quote ---
This is exactly it. I'm sure it's always been there, but
another unfortunate aspect of social media is a general (and
particularly prevalent) over-confidence in people's own
abilities relative to experts. For example, there are some very
comical videos on YouTube of (for all intents and purposes) the
worst basketball player in the NBA, recently retired, and
annihilating highly competent amateur and semi-professional
players. Anyone who has even played 5-a-sides with a
current/semi-pro footballer knows exactly how humbling that
experience is.
The reason for the example is that fans/pundits etc have a
massively inflated view of the layperson's ability to referee
football, and a huge over-simplification of the skills,
experience, and expertise that's required.
I do think there's some truth in there needing to be greater
mobility within refereeing, but almost universally speaking, the
participants at the very top level of any
sports/hobby/undertaking are there for one reason - they are the
best by whatever objective/subjective standards we set.
The single best way to improve the quality at the top of any
sport, or increase the height of the pyramid or the numbers at
the top of the pyramid is to increase the size of the base. The
only way to do that is making refereeing more accessible (i.e.
more attractive and less abuse), and make it better paid.
Everything else is distraction.
I suggest that the way the media and football is going about
things right now is entirely counter-intuitive. Promoting or
demoting officials more regularly is only going to achieve the
complete opposite.
Edit: I'd also suggest that reduced job security, and increased
jeopardy isn't going to benefit the game either.
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