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#Post#: 5330--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: February 25, 2019, 3:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=590.msg5321#msg5321
date=1551040870]
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=590.msg5318#msg5318
date=1551040587]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=590.msg5313#msg5313
date=1551040105]
> [quote author=BabyRef link=topic=590.msg5307#msg5307
date=1551037426]
> Agree that he was very good, but I wonder if he could have
done more during the substitution farce.
>
> As I understand it, the board had gone up and the substitution
had been announced - at that point does the player not have to
leave the field by law? And could be YCd if he doesn't comply?
>
> I felt verry bad for Sarri and wonder if the ref could have
been a bit more proactive
>
--- End Quote ---
No, there's nothing in law to support that. You could
potentially caution him for delaying the restart, but you can't
physically force him off and it is for the club to sort out.
In that getting involved would be incorrect in law, as law 3
states …
[I]if a player who is to be replaced refuses to leave, play
continues[/I]
[/quote]
What would you do if the manager insisted the sub should be made
when you went to speak to him?
Would you instruct the goalkeeper to complete the substitution
process and yellow card him if he refused, or simply consider
that the substitution wasn't taking place and continue the game
until the players/manager sorted it out themselves?
I wouldn't blame Moss for the incident. I thought he handled it
well by seemingly speaking to the keeper and the manager. I'm
not sure disciplinary action at that point would have helped the
situation.
[/quote]
As per law, you restart play. The manager and keeper can then
sort it out between themselves and if the latter then sees sense
you can then allow the substitution to go ahead.
[/quote]
What would you do if the manager repeatedly tried to make the
substitution at subsequent stoppages and the player kept
refusing to go off?!
Do you just ignore the substitution entirely or can any
disciplinary action be taken against a player/manager if it is
perceived as, for example, timewasting?
[/quote]
Not sure but presumably time would be added on each occasion,
'minimum of 5....10....15 additional minutes [emoji30]
I wonder how much influence the Chelsea players, and in
particular the captain, might have had on effecting the
substitution. After all, they are on the field of play, not the
manager. I think it was the Wolves captain who intervened when
two players lined up to take their penalty v AFCB, and shoved
one of the players out of the way. Could something similar not
have happened at Wembley?
I would not wish to be at the Chelsea training ground today, but
will the manager be there? :o
#Post#: 5336--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: bmb
Date: February 25, 2019, 6:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> I think it was the Wolves captain who intervened when two
players lined up to take their penalty v AFCB, and shoved one of
the players out of the way. Could something similar not have
happened at Wembley?
>
>
--- End Quote ---
That seems to be a regular occurance with pens and AFCB! Seen
it at least 3-4 times with our own players. Every single time
the ref has just stood and let them get on with their spat over
who is taking it with no more than a tapping of his watch! Very
bratty behaviour.
I do however think the captain should have intervened yesterday.
#Post#: 5337--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: February 25, 2019, 7:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TVOS link ---
>
> Any observations on Hazard being flagged offside by Andy
Halliday towards the end of 90 minutes? It seemed erroneous and
against VAR protocol.
>
--- End Quote ---
Here lies the problem and it will continue. Only certain games
next season will have VAR. I can see when the SG1 are in the FL
without VAR that they will either continue to flag early,
against VAR protocol, or they won't flag at all and we will get
more controversial offside shouts.
I can really see the FL sides suffering as it will be difficult
to switch between the two ways of doing things.
The only other option is that no SG1 go into the FL.
#Post#: 5340--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 25, 2019, 7:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TheThingFromLewes link ---
>
> [quote author=TVOS link=topic=590.msg5308#msg5308
date=1551038380]
> Any observations on Hazard being flagged offside by Andy
Halliday towards the end of 90 minutes? It seemed erroneous and
against VAR protocol.
>
--- End Quote ---
Here lies the problem and it will continue. Only certain games
next season will have VAR. I can see when the SG1 are in the FL
without VAR that they will either continue to flag early,
against VAR protocol, or they won't flag at all and we will get
more controversial offside shouts.
I can really see the FL sides suffering as it will be difficult
to switch between the two ways of doing things.
The only other option is that no SG1 go into the FL.
[/quote]
Well, they've managed to adjust to games with/without goal line
technology or to games in Europe using AARs, etc.
It's a slight challenge but it can't be that difficult for
trained professionals surely.
#Post#: 5341--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: February 25, 2019, 7:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=TheThingFromLewes link=topic=590.msg5337#msg5337
date=1551100422]
> [quote author=TVOS link=topic=590.msg5308#msg5308
date=1551038380]
> Any observations on Hazard being flagged offside by Andy
Halliday towards the end of 90 minutes? It seemed erroneous and
against VAR protocol.
>
--- End Quote ---
Here lies the problem and it will continue. Only certain games
next season will have VAR. I can see when the SG1 are in the FL
without VAR that they will either continue to flag early,
against VAR protocol, or they won't flag at all and we will get
more controversial offside shouts.
I can really see the FL sides suffering as it will be difficult
to switch between the two ways of doing things.
The only other option is that no SG1 go into the FL.
[/quote]
Well, they've managed to adjust to games with/without goal line
technology or to games in Europe using AARs, etc.
It's a slight challenge but it can't be that difficult for
trained professionals surely.
[/quote]
That's a good point, perhaps it'll be the non FIFA officials
who've had less exposure who could potentially be at a
disadvantage.
#Post#: 5345--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: MichaelRef
Date: February 25, 2019, 9:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Moss was calm and composed throughout, and was a good
performance.
In regards of the Halliday flagging, in my opinion, he was right
to flag despite the tightness and this should be the case with
VAR. VAR should only be used to overrule a decision rather than
make that decision, therefore the Linesman should flag if he
believes a player is offside and it should be the job of VAR to
overrule that decision if it is incorrect.
#Post#: 5347--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: nemesis
Date: February 25, 2019, 9:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: MichaelRef link ---
>
> Moss was calm and composed throughout, and was a good
performance.
>
> In regards of the Halliday flagging, in my opinion, he was
right to flag despite the tightness and this should be the case
with VAR. VAR should only be used to overrule a decision rather
than make that decision, therefore the Linesman should flag if
he believes a player is offside and it should be the job of VAR
to overrule that decision if it is incorrect.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry that makes no sense.
Assistant flags erroneously, referee blows and play stops. How
do you overrule that incorrect decision with VAR?
#Post#: 5351--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 25, 2019, 10:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=MichaelRef link=topic=590.msg5345#msg5345
date=1551107524]
> Moss was calm and composed throughout, and was a good
performance.
>
> In regards of the Halliday flagging, in my opinion, he was
right to flag despite the tightness and this should be the case
with VAR. VAR should only be used to overrule a decision rather
than make that decision, therefore the Linesman should flag if
he believes a player is offside and it should be the job of VAR
to overrule that decision if it is incorrect.
>
--- End Quote ---
Sorry that makes no sense.
Assistant flags erroneously, referee blows and play stops. How
do you overrule that incorrect decision with VAR?
[/quote]
Indeed - if Hazard scores then I've no problem with the
assistant raising the flag to indicate that he believes it is
offside and VAR can then review to check.
The problem is that it's not possible to overrule if the
decision has led to the game being stopped so in tight calls
where there is a strong likelihood of a goal being scored, the
assistant should delay the flag or at least the referee should
delay the whistle.
#Post#: 5373--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: QuoCob
Date: February 25, 2019, 12:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Should they only delay the flag when the decision is tight?
#Post#: 5382--------------------------------------------------
Re: J MOSS - EFL final
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: February 25, 2019, 1:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I've only seen one still image of the offside call and yet again
we have the AR ahead of play (albeit not as bad as in the West
Ham game) so he is not getting the correct angle of vision
straight across the pitch.
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