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#Post#: 77858--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham wolves Tony Harrington(tim Robinson var)
DIR By: GingerReferee
Date: April 6, 2024, 6:01 pm
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It’s a shit rule, as I don’t think Fabianski is ever getting
there but it’s a good use of var to suggest an onfield review
and good decision to overturn it
#Post#: 77860--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham wolves Tony Harrington(tim Robinson var)
DIR By: yfc54
Date: April 6, 2024, 6:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Elliot Abrahamsson link ---
>
> [quote author=Adam link=top
>
> He's right in front of him when the header is made, I don't
see how you can say that he doesn't block his view. Sorry if I'm
being harsh on you today, I feel like we might have quite
different opinions on refereeing overall and that is obviously
okay :)
>
--- End Quote ---
Fabianski clearly watches the ball as it goes past him so his
view is hardly being blocked. In fact if you watch it again he
just stands there with his hands up after the ball has crossed
the line so not exactly a massive appeal.A terrible decision
#Post#: 77861--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham wolves Tony Harrington(tim Robinson var)
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: April 6, 2024, 6:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Elliot Abrahamsson link ---
>
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=5870.msg77826#msg77826
date=1712424853]
> [quote author=Pm2 link=topic=5870.msg77821#msg77821
date=1712422578]
> What do we think of the offside decision at the end.to me it
looks like wolves might see another apology off Howard Webb
>
--- End Quote ---
They deserve one. Absolutely scandalous decision, as quoted per
Gary Oniell. Shambolic. Robinson and Harrington should be
subjected to at least 1 week off completely. It shows a complete
lack of understanding of football all around. Moyes says its
dreadful, ONiell says its woeful, Fabianski says its wrong.
Therefore it's a horrific call.
[/quote]
That's not how it works though, is it? Standing in front of a
keeper in an offside position like that has for as long as I can
remember nearly always been called offside, which it also is by
the letter of the law. I can't even phantom Howard Webb giving
them anything close to an apology for this one. I do absolutely
understand that Wolves are frustated, I would likely also be if
I was in their situation, but we have to look at what the rule
says and how it's been applied constantly for years, and
therefore offside is absolutely the correct call in this
situation
[/quote]
I'll give you one which wasn't given. Arsenal v Manchester
United last season.
#Post#: 77862--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham wolves Tony Harrington(tim Robinson var)
DIR By: Elliot Abrahamsson
Date: April 6, 2024, 6:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bruntyboy link ---
>
> [quote author=Elliot Abrahamsson
link=topic=5870.msg77828#msg77828 date=1712425475]
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=5870.msg77826#msg77826
date=1712424853]
> [quote author=Pm2 link=topic=5870.msg77821#msg77821
date=1712422578]
> What do we think of the offside decision at the end.to me it
looks like wolves might see another apology off Howard Webb
>
--- End Quote ---
They deserve one. Absolutely scandalous decision, as quoted per
Gary Oniell. Shambolic. Robinson and Harrington should be
subjected to at least 1 week off completely. It shows a complete
lack of understanding of football all around. Moyes says its
dreadful, ONiell says its woeful, Fabianski says its wrong.
Therefore it's a horrific call.
[/quote]
That's not how it works though, is it? Standing in front of a
keeper in an offside position like that has for as long as I can
remember nearly always been called offside, which it also is by
the letter of the law. I can't even phantom Howard Webb giving
them anything close to an apology for this one. I do absolutely
understand that Wolves are frustated, I would likely also be if
I was in their situation, but we have to look at what the rule
says and how it's been applied constantly for years, and
therefore offside is absolutely the correct call in this
situation
[/quote]
I'll give you one which wasn't given. Arsenal v Manchester
United last season.
[/quote]
Which decision are you thinking about? I just watched all the
goals from these two games, and I can't find anything that is
even remotely similar to this
#Post#: 77866--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham wolves Tony Harrington(tim Robinson var)
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: April 7, 2024, 3:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't fully convinced by Lineker's suggestion on MOTD that a
challenge system for VAR where each team could make one appeal a
half and keep it if successful would lead to less frequent use
of VAR.
It would obviously depend on the exact process you followed but
I get the sense Lineker is talking about full-scale on-field
reviews where the referee looks at the monitor, as I've heard
him say previously that he wouldn't apply Clear and Obvious. How
many games do you get now which have at least 4 on-field reviews
in a match? Lineker suggested that he didn't think anyone would
have appealed the goal Wolves scored in injury time yesterday
but if you're West Ham and have an appeal left in the 98th
minute or whatever it was, then why would you not use it when
you've just conceded an equaliser? At which point, does the
process play out any differently?
I guess it would also increase the consequences of a borderline
or 'incorrect' call going against you if you've used an appeal.
If Republic Of Ireland didn't have an appeal left for the 2010
World Cup play-off when Thierry Henry handballed it then do you
gain anything?
It obviously depends what you think the main flaws are with the
current system and what you think the purpose of the system
should be but I'm not convinced by the argument it would be used
less frequently overall with a challenge system.
#Post#: 77871--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham wolves Tony Harrington(tim Robinson var)
DIR By: Claretman
Date: April 7, 2024, 4:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I wasn't fully convinced by Lineker's suggestion on MOTD that
a challenge system for VAR where each team could make one appeal
a half and keep it if successful would lead to less frequent use
of VAR.
>
> It would obviously depend on the exact process you followed
but I get the sense Lineker is talking about full-scale on-field
reviews where the referee looks at the monitor, as I've heard
him say previously that he wouldn't apply Clear and Obvious. How
many games do you get now which have at least 4 on-field reviews
in a match? Lineker suggested that he didn't think anyone would
have appealed the goal Wolves scored in injury time yesterday
but if you're West Ham and have an appeal left in the 98th
minute or whatever it was, then why would you not use it when
you've just conceded an equaliser? At which point, does the
process play out any differently?
>
> I guess it would also increase the consequences of a
borderline or 'incorrect' call going against you if you've used
an appeal. If Republic Of Ireland didn't have an appeal left for
the 2010 World Cup play-off when Thierry Henry handballed it
then do you gain anything?
>
> It obviously depends what you think the main flaws are with
the current system and what you think the purpose of the system
should be but I'm not convinced by the argument it would be used
less frequently overall with a challenge system.
>
--- End Quote ---
Using an appeal system you would get less decisions corrected.
Var is watching all the time and only intervenes in certain
circumstances, whereas a few appeals would probably miss
critical incidents.
#Post#: 77872--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham wolves Tony Harrington(tim Robinson var)
DIR By: Leggy
Date: April 7, 2024, 5:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have seen this incident once and, for what its worth:
The player in an offside position is right on front of the
goal-keeper and is blocking his view of where the ball is going,
who is going to play it and where they are going to put it.
That sounds like the classic definition of a player interfering
with an opponent.
But, the goal-keeper had no chance of stopping the ball entering
the goal; given it went in, low-down into the right hand corner
of the goal. That sounds like the classic definition of a
player in an offside position not impacting play.
But, if the player had not been in that particular offside
position the goal-keeper would have had a clear view of where
the ball was going both before and after the goal-scorer headed
it into the net. Given that clear view, the goal-keeper may
have been able to anticipate the header and make an attempt at a
save. That puts us back towards the classic definition of a
player interfering with an opponent.
This is an excellent example of the desire to define offside
with 100% clarity ties everyone up in knots and creates more
problems than it solves. (ditto handball).
Having seen it once and typed the above I am still no nearer
deciding whether the "goal" should have been chalked off or not.
What I am 100% sure of, though, it that Gary O'Neill's comment
along the lines of "anyone who thinks that is offside does not
understand football" is arrogant in the extreme and - if not
sanctionable - an attempt to demean people that always do their
best to enhance a game of football by refereeing to the best of
their ability and without fear or favour.
Any mistakes made by Premier League referees (and Assistants,
Fourth Officials and VARs) are outweighed x ten each week by
players and coaches. Perhaps if Gary O'Neill and others like
him concentrated on reducing the errors within their control and
left the match officials alone (some thing that pretty much
happens in every other professional sport) the game would be
better off.
#Post#: 77873--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham wolves Tony Harrington(tim Robinson var)
DIR By: carrowman
Date: April 7, 2024, 6:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I wasn't fully convinced by Lineker's suggestion on MOTD that
a challenge system for VAR where each team could make one appeal
a half and keep it if successful would lead to less frequent use
of VAR.
>
> It would obviously depend on the exact process you followed
but I get the sense Lineker is talking about full-scale on-field
reviews where the referee looks at the monitor, as I've heard
him say previously that he wouldn't apply Clear and Obvious. How
many games do you get now which have at least 4 on-field reviews
in a match? Lineker suggested that he didn't think anyone would
have appealed the goal Wolves scored in injury time yesterday
but if you're West Ham and have an appeal left in the 98th
minute or whatever it was, then why would you not use it when
you've just conceded an equaliser? At which point, does the
process play out any differently?
>
> I guess it would also increase the consequences of a
borderline or 'incorrect' call going against you if you've used
an appeal. If Republic Of Ireland didn't have an appeal left for
the 2010 World Cup play-off when Thierry Henry handballed it
then do you gain anything?
>
> It obviously depends what you think the main flaws are with
the current system and what you think the purpose of the system
should be but I'm not convinced by the argument it would be used
less frequently overall with a challenge system.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree. You see it in cricket, when Jimmy Anderson appeals
against a plumb lbw, just because they have unused appeals left
at the end of the innings. Totally pointless and just wastes
time. Perhaps challenges would then have to be lost for the next
game for frivolous appeals to prevent this.
#Post#: 77932--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham vs Wolves Tony - Tony Harrington (VAR - Tim
Robinson)
DIR By: adcr85
Date: April 8, 2024, 8:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My Tuppence on this. Firstly I think the decision overall is
correct.
My main point, why is the striker there? Partially one for a
flick on/rebound, but mostly to put off the keper. He is there
to distract/confuse the keeper, makes contact with him whilst
the ball is in the air. Now the fact that at the exact moment
the ball is headed the striker is not in full/complete line of
sight of the goalkeeper is a bit immaterial. He's still in
peripheral vision, he still won't be able to dive forward, he's
definitely in his personal space, so as I say for me - offside.
For those in the media/on here who said the goalkeeper could
move - he shouldn't have to - he presumably decides not to have
players on the post so that he can have the goalarea for
himself, he shouldn't have to move because someone who is
offside, simple as for me
#Post#: 77970--------------------------------------------------
Re: West Ham vs Wolves Tony - Tony Harrington (VAR - Tim
Robinson)
DIR By: Claretman
Date: April 8, 2024, 1:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Digressing a little i dont like the actions of my team at free
kick either, where an attacker stands close by the goalkeeper
but runs away out of the line of vision of the keeper as the
kick is being taken. By the fact that he is there and moves as
the kick is taken, to me he has impacted on the keeper.
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