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#Post#: 77682--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Taylor - Man City V Arsenal
DIR By: Adam
Date: April 2, 2024, 3:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Microscopist link ---
>
> [quote author=dtrv2 link=topic=5846.msg77594#msg77594
date=1711926395]
> I thought overall Taylor did well - in a game of this
magnitude, you just don't want the referee to be blamed for a
decision that changes a game, and he did well not to fall for
some of the theatrics in the penalty area.
>
> I do think we were lucky not to get a couple of players
cautioned - Jesus early on a clear example, although you could
equally make the case a City player slid in late on to
deliberately stop a counter and wasn't booked too. Taylor
clearly set out to not flash the cards, which he got away with
because he is Anthony Taylor whose reputation and experience
allows him to do that. I think bar Oliver, any other SG referee
who tried this approach would have really struggled.
>
> Very dull game, and a bit of an anti-climax, but I'll take the
point! :)
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with much of what you say, he was certainly consistent
in not awarding yellow cards to both sides although (perhaps
naturally) I thought there was only one candidate challenge for
a yellow card by City against five for Arsenal. (The two yellow
cards given were of players saying "please book me" in my view).
A foul count of 16 against Arsenal against 4 against City at
the 70th minute is quite telling (evened up a bit later as City
perhaps wearied of being kicked). I will never understand the
semi-amnesty against cards in the early stages of a game and
Jesus on Bernardo was, to me a clear yellow card at any time in
any game at any level.
Surely the best management is to set the expectations early in
the game and stick to them.
There was particular period of five minutes between the 50th and
55th minute where there were 4 fouls awarded against Arsenal.
Mostly there were of the "professional foul" type intending to
break up attacking moves. But that only tells part of the
story, between 51.45 and 51.50 there were three "never mind the
ball, lets get on with the game" challenges for the first two
"advantage" was played despite the ball being effectively a
"hospital" pass to a City player who was clobbered as soon as
the ball arrived. Even after the third challenge no card
appeared. If the referee looks back on that few minutes he
might well come out in a cold sweat thinking what could have
happened if one of those challenges had resulted in serious
injury or if City had retaliated in style when he would have
almost certainly have lost control of the game. City players
deserve credit for not responding in type.
As I understand it the notion that a referee not issuing cards
is to let the game flow. In this case it has had the exact
opposite effect allowing Arsenal to break up play with impunity
and contributing to a "Very dull game"
[/quote]
Very good piece by you, Microscopist. I think it sums in up
perfectly. I'm fascinated to here as part of the debate the
views of those who disliked the post.
#Post#: 77685--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Taylor - Man City V Arsenal
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: April 2, 2024, 3:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Not sure why members feel they have to use "dislike" It implies
a post has been unpleasant in some way, and you can hardly say
that about microscopist's contributions. What's wrong with just
"disagree"?
#Post#: 77688--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Taylor - Man City V Arsenal
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: April 2, 2024, 4:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Microscopist link ---
>
> [quote author=dtrv2 link=topic=5846.msg77594#msg77594
date=1711926395]
> I thought overall Taylor did well - in a game of this
magnitude, you just don't want the referee to be blamed for a
decision that changes a game, and he did well not to fall for
some of the theatrics in the penalty area.
>
> I do think we were lucky not to get a couple of players
cautioned - Jesus early on a clear example, although you could
equally make the case a City player slid in late on to
deliberately stop a counter and wasn't booked too. Taylor
clearly set out to not flash the cards, which he got away with
because he is Anthony Taylor whose reputation and experience
allows him to do that. I think bar Oliver, any other SG referee
who tried this approach would have really struggled.
>
> Very dull game, and a bit of an anti-climax, but I'll take the
point! :)
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with much of what you say, he was certainly consistent
in not awarding yellow cards to both sides although (perhaps
naturally) I thought there was only one candidate challenge for
a yellow card by City against five for Arsenal. (The two yellow
cards given were of players saying "please book me" in my view).
A foul count of 16 against Arsenal against 4 against City at
the 70th minute is quite telling (evened up a bit later as City
perhaps wearied of being kicked). I will never understand the
semi-amnesty against cards in the early stages of a game and
Jesus on Bernardo was, to me a clear yellow card at any time in
any game at any level.
Surely the best management is to set the expectations early in
the game and stick to them.
There was particular period of five minutes between the 50th and
55th minute where there were 4 fouls awarded against Arsenal.
Mostly there were of the "professional foul" type intending to
break up attacking moves. But that only tells part of the
story, between 51.45 and 51.50 there were three "never mind the
ball, lets get on with the game" challenges for the first two
"advantage" was played despite the ball being effectively a
"hospital" pass to a City player who was clobbered as soon as
the ball arrived. Even after the third challenge no card
appeared. If the referee looks back on that few minutes he
might well come out in a cold sweat thinking what could have
happened if one of those challenges had resulted in serious
injury or if City had retaliated in style when he would have
almost certainly have lost control of the game. City players
deserve credit for not responding in type.
As I understand it the notion that a referee not issuing cards
is to let the game flow. In this case it has had the exact
opposite effect allowing Arsenal to break up play with impunity
and contributing to a "Very dull game"
[/quote]
For all that no mention of the City players surrounding the
referee on numerous occasions and waving their hands showing
the number of fouls (similar to waving the imaginary card). To
cap it off mention of the "professional foul breaking up
attacking play" of which City are the masters of.
As with others above I agree he was too lenient in not awarding
YCs for blatant YC offences. Whereas in other matches similar
incidents would receive a YC and the offending player would then
have to watch out for any subsequent foul of offence for the
rest of the game potentially leading to a 2YC. Why should one
match be refereed by "managing the game" and yet others aren't?
#Post#: 77695--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Taylor - Man City V Arsenal
DIR By: Adam
Date: April 2, 2024, 5:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bruntyboy link ---
>
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=5846.msg77677#msg77677
date=1712076180]
> [quote author=dtrv2 link=topic=5846.msg77594#msg77594
date=1711926395]
> I thought overall Taylor did well - in a game of this
magnitude, you just don't want the referee to be blamed for a
decision that changes a game, and he did well not to fall for
some of the theatrics in the penalty area.
>
> I do think we were lucky not to get a couple of players
cautioned - Jesus early on a clear example, although you could
equally make the case a City player slid in late on to
deliberately stop a counter and wasn't booked too. Taylor
clearly set out to not flash the cards, which he got away with
because he is Anthony Taylor whose reputation and experience
allows him to do that. I think bar Oliver, any other SG referee
who tried this approach would have really struggled.
>
> Very dull game, and a bit of an anti-climax, but I'll take the
point! :)
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with much of what you say, he was certainly consistent
in not awarding yellow cards to both sides although (perhaps
naturally) I thought there was only one candidate challenge for
a yellow card by City against five for Arsenal. (The two yellow
cards given were of players saying "please book me" in my view).
A foul count of 16 against Arsenal against 4 against City at
the 70th minute is quite telling (evened up a bit later as City
perhaps wearied of being kicked). I will never understand the
semi-amnesty against cards in the early stages of a game and
Jesus on Bernardo was, to me a clear yellow card at any time in
any game at any level.
Surely the best management is to set the expectations early in
the game and stick to them.
There was particular period of five minutes between the 50th and
55th minute where there were 4 fouls awarded against Arsenal.
Mostly there were of the "professional foul" type intending to
break up attacking moves. But that only tells part of the
story, between 51.45 and 51.50 there were three "never mind the
ball, lets get on with the game" challenges for the first two
"advantage" was played despite the ball being effectively a
"hospital" pass to a City player who was clobbered as soon as
the ball arrived. Even after the third challenge no card
appeared. If the referee looks back on that few minutes he
might well come out in a cold sweat thinking what could have
happened if one of those challenges had resulted in serious
injury or if City had retaliated in style when he would have
almost certainly have lost control of the game. City players
deserve credit for not responding in type.
As I understand it the notion that a referee not issuing cards
is to let the game flow. In this case it has had the exact
opposite effect allowing Arsenal to break up play with impunity
and contributing to a "Very dull game"
[/quote]
For all that no mention of the City players surrounding the
referee on numerous occasions and waving their hands showing
the number of fouls (similar to waving the imaginary card). To
cap it off mention of the "professional foul breaking up
attacking play" of which City are the masters of.
As with others above I agree he was too lenient in not awarding
YCs for blatant YC offences. Whereas in other matches similar
incidents would receive a YC and the offending player would then
have to watch out for any subsequent foul of offence for the
rest of the game potentially leading to a 2YC. Why should one
match be refereed by "managing the game" and yet others aren't?
[/quote]
Because he consistently stuck to his plan for the full 94
minutes. Others deviate about an hour in and then lose respect
or the plot!
#Post#: 77701--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Taylor - Man City V Arsenal
DIR By: Hertsref123
Date: April 3, 2024, 2:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hertsref123 link ---
>
> [quote author=Adam link=topic=5846.msg77682#msg77682
date=1712089090]
> [quote author=Microscopist link=topic=5846.msg77677#msg77677
date=1712076180]
> [quote author=dtrv2 link=topic=5846.msg77594#msg77594
date=1711926395]
> I thought overall Taylor did well - in a game of this
magnitude, you just don't want the referee to be blamed for a
decision that changes a game, and he did well not to fall for
some of the theatrics in the penalty area.
>
> I do think we were lucky not to get a couple of players
cautioned - Jesus early on a clear example, although you could
equally make the case a City player slid in late on to
deliberately stop a counter and wasn't booked too. Taylor
clearly set out to not flash the cards, which he got away with
because he is Anthony Taylor whose reputation and experience
allows him to do that. I think bar Oliver, any other SG referee
who tried this approach would have really struggled.
>
> Very dull game, and a bit of an anti-climax, but I'll take the
point! :)
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree with much of what you say, he was certainly consistent
in not awarding yellow cards to both sides although (perhaps
naturally) I thought there was only one candidate challenge for
a yellow card by City against five for Arsenal. (The two yellow
cards given were of players saying "please book me" in my view).
A foul count of 16 against Arsenal against 4 against City at
the 70th minute is quite telling (evened up a bit later as City
perhaps wearied of being kicked). I will never understand the
semi-amnesty against cards in the early stages of a game and
Jesus on Bernardo was, to me a clear yellow card at any time in
any game at any level.
Surely the best management is to set the expectations early in
the game and stick to them.
There was particular period of five minutes between the 50th and
55th minute where there were 4 fouls awarded against Arsenal.
Mostly there were of the "professional foul" type intending to
break up attacking moves. But that only tells part of the
story, between 51.45 and 51.50 there were three "never mind the
ball, lets get on with the game" challenges for the first two
"advantage" was played despite the ball being effectively a
"hospital" pass to a City player who was clobbered as soon as
the ball arrived. Even after the third challenge no card
appeared. If the referee looks back on that few minutes he
might well come out in a cold sweat thinking what could have
happened if one of those challenges had resulted in serious
injury or if City had retaliated in style when he would have
almost certainly have lost control of the game. City players
deserve credit for not responding in type.
As I understand it the notion that a referee not issuing cards
is to let the game flow. In this case it has had the exact
opposite effect allowing Arsenal to break up play with impunity
and contributing to a "Very dull game"
[/quote]
Very good piece by you, Microscopist. I think it sums in up
perfectly. I'm fascinated to here as part of the debate the
views of those who disliked the post.
[/quote]
[/quote]
I think bruntyboy has summed up my reasons for disagreeing
above.
I apologise for the dislike however, I’ll use disagree in
future.
Edited to fix quotethingamajigga, bmb
#Post#: 77712--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Taylor - Man City V Arsenal
DIR By: Claretman
Date: April 3, 2024, 5:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Managing a league game and not issuing yellow cards where they
should be given gives no thought to the other 18 teams in the
league and the possible repercussions that should have been felt
in future games, ie suspensions etc
#Post#: 77722--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Taylor - Man City V Arsenal
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: April 3, 2024, 11:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> Managing a league game and not issuing yellow cards where they
should be given gives no thought to the other 18 teams in the
league and the possible repercussions that should have been felt
in future games, ie suspensions etc
>
--- End Quote ---
A very relevant observation after watching games this season
where cautions have been issued very freely. Noticeable that
certain players/teams do not receive cautions for commiiting
similar fouls to other players cautioned in the same match.
Who knows why?
Last season there was an average of 3.68 yellows per game.
This season as of today the average is 4.30 yellows per game.
The red card count is much worse with anaverage of 0.82 per game
last season rising to 1.70 this season.
#Post#: 77739--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Taylor - Man City V Arsenal
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: April 3, 2024, 3:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> Managing a league game and not issuing yellow cards where they
should be given gives no thought to the other 18 teams in the
league and the possible repercussions that should have been felt
in future games, ie suspensions etc
>
--- End Quote ---
The same can be said for FA and Carabao Cup games where 2 YC can
lead to a suspension in a later round.
#Post#: 77741--------------------------------------------------
Re: A Taylor - Man City V Arsenal
DIR By: Claretman
Date: April 3, 2024, 4:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bruntyboy link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=5846.msg77712#msg77712
date=1712140964]
> Managing a league game and not issuing yellow cards where they
should be given gives no thought to the other 18 teams in the
league and the possible repercussions that should have been felt
in future games, ie suspensions etc
>
--- End Quote ---
The same can be said for FA and Carabao Cup games where 2 YC can
lead to a suspension in a later round.
[/quote]
Very true, same goes for a final as a red card can to lead to a
suspension
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