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#Post#: 5244--------------------------------------------------
Rugby Refereeing- A few questions
By: DublinRef Date: February 23, 2019, 3:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I've recently started following rugby and having an interest in
officiating already I was wondering if anyone with more
knowledge may be able to answer for me?
1. PRO14 referees - Do these referees ref exclusively in this
competition? I know some don't i.e. Nigel Owens but for example
Frank Murphy who did Leinster v Munster, I've never (I don't
think) seen him referee international matches or European cup
games, so how does this work?
2. Are there clear panels such as in UEFA elite, first group
etc?
3.Is there a data base available to see how many games each
referee has officiated (like there are many for football refs)?
4. It seems to someone outside the know like me that some refs
have seemingly suddenly dropped off? George Clancy and JP Doyle
both refereed at the 2015 RWC but they didn't officiate any 6
nations or Autumn internationals, seems a quick turnaround to me
is this purely due to poor performances? Are they both totally
out of the picture for RWC 2019?
5. Is there a list of pre selected officials for the world cup
like FIFA do? Who is in the running and how many will attend?
#Post#: 5265--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions
By: Hendo Date: February 23, 2019, 2:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=DublinRef link=topic=584.msg5244#msg5244
date=1550914272]
I've recently started following rugby and having an interest in
officiating already I was wondering if anyone with more
knowledge may be able to answer for me?
1. PRO14 referees - Do these referees ref exclusively in this
competition? I know some don't i.e. Nigel Owens but for example
Frank Murphy who did Leinster v Munster, I've never (I don't
think) seen him referee international matches or European cup
games, so how does this work?
2. Are there clear panels such as in UEFA elite, first group
etc?
3.Is there a data base available to see how many games each
referee has officiated (like there are many for football refs)?
4. It seems to someone outside the know like me that some refs
have seemingly suddenly dropped off? George Clancy and JP Doyle
both refereed at the 2015 RWC but they didn't officiate any 6
nations or Autumn internationals, seems a quick turnaround to me
is this purely due to poor performances? Are they both totally
out of the picture for RWC 2019?
5. Is there a list of pre selected officials for the world cup
like FIFA do? Who is in the running and how many will attend?
[/quote]
Hi Dublin Ref I can answer some but not sure on all your points
1. Refs from European countries operate both in matches in their
own country ( such as the Guinness Premiership in England) as
well as the Euro competitions. It’s generally the top 5 or 6
refs in each country who do so in the latter, also being a good
indicator of who might be thought of as a future international
Ref. Certainly the top games, especially in European matches,
are given to those who are already international refs
2. I think most countries have a panel of refs (more limited
number in lesser countries) of those selected to be appointed to
international games. World Rugby is responsible for appointing
these refs to international games, with the likes of Owens,
Garces, Barnes etc getting the top matches, similar to football.
Up and coming refs can be groomed here with matches involving
3rd tier teams. It’s very similar to soccer the honest.
3. Not sure
4. It surprised many of us on here when Clancy was appointed as
an international Ref - if you like, he was seen by us as the Lee
Mason or Roger East of the rugby world. Need I say more? I think
his international days are over, as are those of J P Doyle who
suddenly fell from grace after a couple of poor games. With
Wayne Barnes intending to retire this season Luke Pearce and
Matt Carley will probably be vying for England’s no. 1 spot,
though Karl Dickson the ex Quins player turned Ref seems to be
on an accelerated scheme. One to watch for.
5. I gather there will be a panel of 12 refs at this years World
Cup. With 14 operating at this years 6 Nations (Nic Berry has 2
games) one can assume that the 12 will be chosen from these,
with 2 missing out. The 2 who do miss out will be joining a
group who will act as touch judges only.
Hope this helps a bit.
#Post#: 5279--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions
By: DublinRef Date: February 23, 2019, 4:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Hendo link=topic=584.msg5265#msg5265
date=1550952211]
[quote author=DublinRef link=topic=584.msg5244#msg5244
date=1550914272]
I've recently started following rugby and having an interest in
officiating already I was wondering if anyone with more
knowledge may be able to answer for me?
1. PRO14 referees - Do these referees ref exclusively in this
competition? I know some don't i.e. Nigel Owens but for example
Frank Murphy who did Leinster v Munster, I've never (I don't
think) seen him referee international matches or European cup
games, so how does this work?
2. Are there clear panels such as in UEFA elite, first group
etc?
3.Is there a data base available to see how many games each
referee has officiated (like there are many for football refs)?
4. It seems to someone outside the know like me that some refs
have seemingly suddenly dropped off? George Clancy and JP Doyle
both refereed at the 2015 RWC but they didn't officiate any 6
nations or Autumn internationals, seems a quick turnaround to me
is this purely due to poor performances? Are they both totally
out of the picture for RWC 2019?
5. Is there a list of pre selected officials for the world cup
like FIFA do? Who is in the running and how many will attend?
[/quote]
Hi Dublin Ref I can answer some but not sure on all your points
1. Refs from European countries operate both in matches in their
own country ( such as the Guinness Premiership in England) as
well as the Euro competitions. It’s generally the top 5 or 6
refs in each country who do so in the latter, also being a good
indicator of who might be thought of as a future international
Ref. Certainly the top games, especially in European matches,
are given to those who are already international refs
2. I think most countries have a panel of refs (more limited
number in lesser countries) of those selected to be appointed to
international games. World Rugby is responsible for appointing
these refs to international games, with the likes of Owens,
Garces, Barnes etc getting the top matches, similar to football.
Up and coming refs can be groomed here with matches involving
3rd tier teams. It’s very similar to soccer the honest.
3. Not sure
4. It surprised many of us on here when Clancy was appointed as
an international Ref - if you like, he was seen by us as the Lee
Mason or Roger East of the rugby world. Need I say more? I think
his international days are over, as are those of J P Doyle who
suddenly fell from grace after a couple of poor games. With
Wayne Barnes intending to retire this season Luke Pearce and
Matt Carley will probably be vying for England’s no. 1 spot,
though Karl Dickson the ex Quins player turned Ref seems to be
on an accelerated scheme. One to watch for.
5. I gather there will be a panel of 12 refs at this years World
Cup. With 14 operating at this years 6 Nations (Nic Berry has 2
games) one can assume that the 12 will be chosen from these,
with 2 missing out. The 2 who do miss out will be joining a
group who will act as touch judges only.
Hope this helps a bit.
[/quote]
Helps an awful lot Hendo thank you very much for taking the time
to reply,
On Clancy and Doyle, did Clancy have a few really bad games?
Seems odd that he like Doyle suddenly dropped from international
refereeing after being in the worlds top 12, as for Doyle you
mentioned he had a few bad games, were they particularly
disastrous? To me he seems like one of the best refs out there a
great communicator (that said I'm not great on the laws)
#Post#: 5281--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions
By: Hendo Date: February 23, 2019, 4:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Clancy was one of those refs who never inspired confidence and
seemed to court controversial incidents in most games - things
like tries following forward passes, awful handling of the
offside at rucks, etc. He never looked comfortable and was at
times a bit like a startled rabbit in the headlights, much akin
to the former PL Ref Mike Jones. I always thought his
communication seemed lacking too though I have seen comments
from his fellow refs that he is a lovely guy with a wicked sense
of humour. He reffed at both the 2011 and 2015 World Cups and
was even given the honour of the opening match in 2011.
Interestingly although he has reffed a vast number of European
matches over the last 10 years he has never had a Final as far
as I can recall whereas colleagues Rolland and Lacey did. As an
aside I think Andrew Brace will be the next Irish no. 1 though
it looks as if he will be going to Japan as a touch judge rather
than referee.
Doyle I agree seems a good communicator and seemed to be being
groomed as Barnes no. 2 and heir apparent in recent years. I
felt at times he was a bit lax with indiscipline but Can’t point
to any specific games in the past which may have resulted in his
rapid demotion, maybe just a feeling from those in power that he
wasn’t cutting the mustard so to speak.
#Post#: 5445--------------------------------------------------
Re: Rugby Refereeing- A few questions
By: RCG Date: February 27, 2019, 1:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Italy vs Wales in 6N and then an autumn international which I
think was in Scotland. Players questioned everything Doyle did
and despite his excellence in this country, he seemed to just
lose it.
Ironically then went on to referee a european challenge cup QF
perfectly and did a very good job with a Champions Cup SF
Other than the Elite world refs there is no specific panel.
Appointments made in conjunction with each country.
Any referee who officiates regularly in their own top flight can
do European games, although as Hendo says, usually limited to
top 6 from each country.
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