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#Post#: 77498--------------------------------------------------
Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: March 30, 2024, 9:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Var once again proving its not fit for purpose, the 2nd penalty
if anything is a West Ham free kick challenge from behind misses
the ball and causes contact.
1st one in my opinion is offside “The player had time to
coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of
instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved
limited contact/control” he has stuck out a leg after the ball
has travelled less than the width of his body.
The red card is defendable until you realise the exact same
offence went unpunished 2 minutes earlier.
#Post#: 77500--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: Elliot Abrahamsson
Date: March 30, 2024, 10:03 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> Var once again proving its not fit for purpose, the 2nd
penalty if anything is a West Ham free kick challenge from
behind misses the ball and causes contact.
>
> 1st one in my opinion is offside “The player had time to
coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of
instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved
limited contact/control” he has stuck out a leg after the ball
has travelled less than the width of his body.
>
> The red card is defendable until you realise the exact same
offence went unpunished 2 minutes earlier.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure I would say it is a a foul on Phillips, but it's
certainly not a move from Gordon that should be awarded with a
penalty in my opinion, and that applies to the first penalty as
well. In neither of the incidents he had a real intention of
going for the ball, he was only trying to win a penalty by
sticking his leg in between the defender and the ball.
Unfortunately, by the current rules and interpretation, this
isn't really even being considered.
For the first penalty the offside is obviously also a discussion
worth having. For me, there are considerations to support both
deliberate and no deliberate play in this situation, I don't
think it was clear and obvious for VAR to intervene in either
case.
#Post#: 77501--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: March 30, 2024, 10:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Elliot Abrahamsson link ---
>
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=5839.msg77498#msg77498
date=1711809839]
> Var once again proving its not fit for purpose, the 2nd
penalty if anything is a West Ham free kick challenge from
behind misses the ball and causes contact.
>
> 1st one in my opinion is offside “The player had time to
coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of
instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved
limited contact/control” he has stuck out a leg after the ball
has travelled less than the width of his body.
>
> The red card is defendable until you realise the exact same
offence went unpunished 2 minutes earlier.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm not sure I would say it is a a foul on Phillips, but it's
certainly not a move from Gordon that should be awarded with a
penalty in my opinion, and that applies to the first penalty as
well. In neither of the incidents he had a real intention of
going for the ball, he was only trying to win a penalty by
sticking his leg in between the defender and the ball.
Unfortunately, by the current rules and interpretation, this
isn't really even being considered.
For the first penalty the offside is obviously also a discussion
worth having. For me, there are considerations to support both
deliberate and no deliberate play in this situation, I don't
think it was clear and obvious for VAR to intervene in either
case.
[/quote]
Like I say first one my opinion is offside can definitely agree
var saying too subjective stay with the decision on the field
just seen the replay so not sure what the on field decision was.
I think this is a great description of the 2nd one “What David
Coote (VAR) is saying is that if he’s walking down the street
and I stick my leg in the way of him, he’s kicked me. ”
#Post#: 77502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: rustyref
Date: March 30, 2024, 11:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Its an absolutely nailed on penalty. Gordon got in front of
Phillips who took an almighty swing at his standing leg. It was
almost identical to the first penalty where Gordon got in front
of Coufal, but with a lot more force in the kick. Completely
accidental by Phillips, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a foul
and penalty.
#Post#: 77503--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: March 30, 2024, 11:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> Its an absolutely nailed on penalty. Gordon got in front of
Phillips who took an almighty swing at his standing leg. It was
almost identical to the first penalty where Gordon got in front
of Coufal, but with a lot more force in the kick. Completely
accidental by Phillips, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a foul
and penalty.
>
--- End Quote ---
So impeding a player with the ball is not a foul now? If we are
saying just sticking your leg in between the player in
possession and the ball is a foul then we can never penalise
someone who trips from in front, like the quote I said from
earlier if I stick my leg in front of you mid step and you make
contact with my leg have I tripped you or have you kicked me?
Your interpretation says the latter
#Post#: 77508--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: rustyref
Date: March 30, 2024, 12:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5839.msg77502#msg77502
date=1711814477]
> Its an absolutely nailed on penalty. Gordon got in front of
Phillips who took an almighty swing at his standing leg. It was
almost identical to the first penalty where Gordon got in front
of Coufal, but with a lot more force in the kick. Completely
accidental by Phillips, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a foul
and penalty.
>
--- End Quote ---
So impeding a player with the ball is not a foul now? If we are
saying just sticking your leg in between the player in
possession and the ball is a foul then we can never penalise
someone who trips from in front, like the quote I said from
earlier if I stick my leg in front of you mid step and you make
contact with my leg have I tripped you or have you kicked me?
Your interpretation says the latter
[/quote]
There's no impeding here. Gordon has every right to move his
foot towards the ball, which is what he did, Phillips has then
carelessly kicked him. If Gordon had moved away from the ball
to affect Phillips's ability to play then ball I would agree
with you, but he didn't.
#Post#: 77510--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: March 30, 2024, 12:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=5839.msg77503#msg77503
date=1711815020]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5839.msg77502#msg77502
date=1711814477]
> Its an absolutely nailed on penalty. Gordon got in front of
Phillips who took an almighty swing at his standing leg. It was
almost identical to the first penalty where Gordon got in front
of Coufal, but with a lot more force in the kick. Completely
accidental by Phillips, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a foul
and penalty.
>
--- End Quote ---
So impeding a player with the ball is not a foul now? If we are
saying just sticking your leg in between the player in
possession and the ball is a foul then we can never penalise
someone who trips from in front, like the quote I said from
earlier if I stick my leg in front of you mid step and you make
contact with my leg have I tripped you or have you kicked me?
Your interpretation says the latter
[/quote]
There's no impeding here. Gordon has every right to move his
foot towards the ball, which is what he did, Phillips has then
carelessly kicked him. If Gordon had moved away from the ball
to affect Phillips's ability to play then ball I would agree
with you, but he didn't.
[/quote]
Gordon is facing away from the ball with his leg across, let's
say an attacker knocks the ball past an attacker who sticks his
leg out but gets it on the ground in front is that a foul on the
striker for kicking the foot on the ground or the defender?
Let's be consistent and penalise an attacker who is tripped by a
defender with the leg in front then
#Post#: 77513--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: rustyref
Date: March 30, 2024, 1:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5839.msg77508#msg77508
date=1711818306]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=5839.msg77503#msg77503
date=1711815020]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5839.msg77502#msg77502
date=1711814477]
> Its an absolutely nailed on penalty. Gordon got in front of
Phillips who took an almighty swing at his standing leg. It was
almost identical to the first penalty where Gordon got in front
of Coufal, but with a lot more force in the kick. Completely
accidental by Phillips, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a foul
and penalty.
>
--- End Quote ---
So impeding a player with the ball is not a foul now? If we are
saying just sticking your leg in between the player in
possession and the ball is a foul then we can never penalise
someone who trips from in front, like the quote I said from
earlier if I stick my leg in front of you mid step and you make
contact with my leg have I tripped you or have you kicked me?
Your interpretation says the latter
[/quote]
There's no impeding here. Gordon has every right to move his
foot towards the ball, which is what he did, Phillips has then
carelessly kicked him. If Gordon had moved away from the ball
to affect Phillips's ability to play then ball I would agree
with you, but he didn't.
[/quote]
Gordon is facing away from the ball with his leg across, let's
say an attacker knocks the ball past an attacker who sticks his
leg out but gets it on the ground in front is that a foul on the
striker for kicking the foot on the ground or the defender?
Let's be consistent and penalise an attacker who is tripped by a
defender with the leg in front then
[/quote]
I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about. Gordon
didn't trip anyone, he had his foot on the floor and then
Phillips just kicked straight through it.
#Post#: 77515--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: refs1
Date: March 30, 2024, 1:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I have several so called commenters say this is not a penalty
kick. It is a stonewall penalty kick. Kicked on the back of the
ankle.
#Post#: 77516--------------------------------------------------
Re: Newcastle v West Ham - Rob Jones
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: March 30, 2024, 2:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=5839.msg77510#msg77510
date=1711818545]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5839.msg77508#msg77508
date=1711818306]
> [quote author=Joecphillips link=topic=5839.msg77503#msg77503
date=1711815020]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5839.msg77502#msg77502
date=1711814477]
> Its an absolutely nailed on penalty. Gordon got in front of
Phillips who took an almighty swing at his standing leg. It was
almost identical to the first penalty where Gordon got in front
of Coufal, but with a lot more force in the kick. Completely
accidental by Phillips, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a foul
and penalty.
>
--- End Quote ---
So impeding a player with the ball is not a foul now? If we are
saying just sticking your leg in between the player in
possession and the ball is a foul then we can never penalise
someone who trips from in front, like the quote I said from
earlier if I stick my leg in front of you mid step and you make
contact with my leg have I tripped you or have you kicked me?
Your interpretation says the latter
[/quote]
There's no impeding here. Gordon has every right to move his
foot towards the ball, which is what he did, Phillips has then
carelessly kicked him. If Gordon had moved away from the ball
to affect Phillips's ability to play then ball I would agree
with you, but he didn't.
[/quote]
Gordon is facing away from the ball with his leg across, let's
say an attacker knocks the ball past an attacker who sticks his
leg out but gets it on the ground in front is that a foul on the
striker for kicking the foot on the ground or the defender?
Let's be consistent and penalise an attacker who is tripped by a
defender with the leg in front then
[/quote]
I genuinely have no idea what you are talking about. Gordon
didn't trip anyone, he had his foot on the floor and then
Phillips just kicked straight through it.
[/quote]
Ok so just ignore the ball attempt to cause contact but ensure
your toe is on the floor 1 frame before the contact even while
you’re still moving to play the player and then it’s a foul on
your favour, if that’s in the other box it’s a West Ham penalty
no debate. Great use of var
In fact villa just got given a free kick for a similar incident
stepped across the player nowhere near the ball villa player
running and there was contact with the villa leg in a forward
motion free kick no complaints, var is useless, clear and
obvious changes day to day
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