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#Post#: 76222--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: rustyref
Date: February 25, 2024, 12:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Joecphillips link ---
>
> [quote author=Mikael W link=topic=5744.msg76219#msg76219
date=1708886085]
> Disallowed Liverpool goal is 100% correct and fully in
accordance with the current interpretation of Law11. Caicedo's
nasty foul was SFP imo but not surprised with any
non-intervention there. He should have cottened on to Chelsea's
early spoiling tactics a bit quicker but Caicedo aside, I'm
struggling to see any CLEAR cards missed by Kavanagh.
>
> Not perfect, but I thought Chris Kavanagh's performance was
generally okay, especially taking into account the unwritten
'don't make yourself the centre of attention in a final' rule
(ie. not immediately showing early YCs to (Chelsea) players).
>
--- End Quote ---
A yellow card offence is a yellow card offence whether it takes
place in the 1st minute or the 90th
[/quote]
It is but we know from evidence over the years that referees set
the bar much higher in cup finals, human nature just means you
are less likely to go early with cautions. Because when people
moan about missed cautions the very same people would moan if
the referee goes in with a hardline approach and kills the game
as a spectacle.
#Post#: 76223--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: February 25, 2024, 1:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Missed the first 35 minutes so only saw the Caicedo incident
when it was shown at HT.
What struck me was the similarity with the Maguire foul
yesterday. Both late, a fair amount of force but contact low
mainly on the foot/boot rather than higher. From that
perception, I don't see how it could be claimed that Maguire's
was a definite RC but Caicedo only a YC.
The difference of course was that yesterday, while Oliver played
advantage, he did go back and correctly caution Maguire, whereas
as far as I know Kavanagh didn't recognise the foul. Trying to
be consistent, I felt both were of that orange hue.
If the early fouls were by Chelsea, it's notable that Liverpool
ended up with 5 YC - (I actually thought it was 6 but may have
been assuming Robertson was cautioned as he probably should have
been) - and Chelsea only 2 according to the stats I saw.
From the 85 minutes I did watch, I thought Kavanagh was ok.
Nothing special but not poor. Whether he will be totally
satisfied with his performance I'm not sure, perhaps depending
on that first 35 minutes I missed.
#Post#: 76224--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: elbee94
Date: February 25, 2024, 1:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
As an aside, what on earth does Mike Dean offer to viewers? He
reiterates what the commentators have said and makes a
prediction which he changes as he hears the VAR comms to match
what the outcome will be. He went from “more of a goal than not
a goal” to “should be disallowed” as soon as the on field review
commenced.
#Post#: 76226--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: Pm2
Date: February 25, 2024, 2:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ref Fan link ---
>
> Missed the first 35 minutes so only saw the Caicedo incident
when it was shown at HT.
> What struck me was the similarity with the Maguire foul
yesterday. Both late, a fair amount of force but contact low
mainly on the foot/boot rather than higher. From that
perception, I don't see how it could be claimed that Maguire's
was a definite RC but Caicedo only a YC.
>
> The difference of course was that yesterday, while Oliver
played advantage, he did go back and correctly caution Maguire,
whereas as far as I know Kavanagh didn't recognise the foul.
Trying to be consistent, I felt both were of that orange hue.
>
> If the early fouls were by Chelsea, it's notable that
Liverpool ended up with 5 YC - (I actually thought it was 6 but
may have been assuming Robertson was cautioned as he probably
should have been) - and Chelsea only 2 according to the stats I
saw.
>
> From the 85 minutes I did watch, I thought Kavanagh was ok.
Nothing special but not poor. Whether he will be totally
satisfied with his performance I'm not sure, perhaps depending
on that first 35 minutes I missed.
>
--- End Quote ---
they were saying on commentary that it was an advantage
#Post#: 76229--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: Ref Fan
Date: February 25, 2024, 4:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Pm2 link ---
>
> [quote author=Ref Fan link=topic=5744.msg76223#msg76223
date=1708888931]
> Missed the first 35 minutes so only saw the Caicedo incident
when it was shown at HT.
> What struck me was the similarity with the Maguire foul
yesterday. Both late, a fair amount of force but contact low
mainly on the foot/boot rather than higher. From that
perception, I don't see how it could be claimed that Maguire's
was a definite RC but Caicedo only a YC.
>
> The difference of course was that yesterday, while Oliver
played advantage, he did go back and correctly caution Maguire,
whereas as far as I know Kavanagh didn't recognise the foul.
Trying to be consistent, I felt both were of that orange hue.
>
> If the early fouls were by Chelsea, it's notable that
Liverpool ended up with 5 YC - (I actually thought it was 6 but
may have been assuming Robertson was cautioned as he probably
should have been) - and Chelsea only 2 according to the stats I
saw.
>
> From the 85 minutes I did watch, I thought Kavanagh was ok.
Nothing special but not poor. Whether he will be totally
satisfied with his performance I'm not sure, perhaps depending
on that first 35 minutes I missed.
>
--- End Quote ---
they were saying on commentary that it was an advantage
[/quote]
Well if that was the case and he saw it as a foul, I'm very
surprised he didn't regard it as reckless.
#Post#: 76231--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: Sheila
Date: February 25, 2024, 4:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> It is but we know from evidence over the years that referees
set the bar much higher in cup finals, human nature just means
you are less likely to go early with cautions. Because when
people moan about missed cautions the very same people would
moan if the referee goes in with a hardline approach and kills
the game as a spectacle.
>
--- End Quote ---
and yet continually we (fans, pundits, players, managers) end up
talking about the negative impact it's had on the game because
there is only 1 official within SG1 who can manage the game
without the use of cards.
--- Quote from: Pm2 link ---
>
>
--- End Quote ---
they were saying on commentary that it was an advantage
[/quote]
Which is a joke within itself and just goes to show how PGMOL
officials cannot enforce the LoTG. For an advantage to be
played, there needs to be a realistic expectation of an
advantage. The mere fact the ball ended up with Gakpo was a
miracle within itself who then was bundled over and lost
possession within seconds of the original foul being committed.
So where exactly was the advantage?
Whole I respect people's opinions that Chris Kavanagh is a
quality official, respectively I disagree. I don't think he's
good enough, when he loses it he tends to really lose it. A
shame because when he came on the scene I thought he was good,
but times change.
#Post#: 76233--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: tef
Date: February 25, 2024, 4:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: elbee94 link ---
>
> As an aside, what on earth does Mike Dean offer to viewers? He
reiterates what the commentators have said and makes a
prediction which he changes as he hears the VAR comms to match
what the outcome will be. He went from “more of a goal than not
a goal” to “should be disallowed” as soon as the on field review
commenced.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well he was deemed not well suited to a VAR role so I’m not
surprised he hadn’t fully clocked what was going on. Also, the
other commentators get to hear the VAR->Ref comms so not sure
what he adds really.
#Post#: 76234--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: stig231
Date: February 25, 2024, 5:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Anyone else notice that Klopp failed to shake Chris Kavanagh’s
hand at the end but did shake the AR’s hands either side? Very
petty.
Klopp’s patronising, sarcastic, smile every single time a
decision or VAR referral goes against him, however correct the
decision is, is really beginning to grate too.
#Post#: 76235--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: tef
Date: February 25, 2024, 5:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: stig231 link ---
>
> Anyone else notice that Klopp failed to shake Chris Kavanagh’s
hand at the end but did shake the AR’s hands either side? Very
petty.
>
> Klopp’s patronising, sarcastic, smile every single time a
decision or VAR referral goes against him, however correct the
decision is, is really beginning to grate too.
>
--- End Quote ---
It began to grate a long time ago. His behaviour towards
officials is terrible (remember him abusing Gary Beswick last
season)…I bet they can’t wait for him to leave.
#Post#: 76236--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris kavanagh -Carabao cup final
DIR By: Scally Bob
Date: February 25, 2024, 6:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
If Colwill had been cautioned as he should have been for a foul
stopping a promising attack then he wouldn’t have been “blocked”
by Endo. Another re-refereeing decision where it just appears
that the VAR once again is desperate to get involved. The
caution when it did come for Colwill also saw Bradley cautioned
for who knows what? He did nothing to warrant a card.
I know referees are often lenient in cup finals (no better
example than the current head of PGMOL in the World Cup) but
Kavanagh allowed Chelsea to foul repeatedly without any action
for what is an obvious spoiling tactic. A word with the captain
(incidentally one of the culprits) and a yellow for the next one
to do it might have had some effect.
Ironically the cards flowed like confetti later in the game
which was inconsistent.
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