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#Post#: 73730--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: Smithy
Date: January 5, 2024, 3:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rhys147 link ---
>
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73720#msg73720
date=1704488994]
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73717#msg73717
date=1704488387]
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73714#msg73714
date=1704488075]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73711#msg73711
date=1704487563]
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73710#msg73710
date=1704487115]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73706#msg73706
date=1704485538]
> Interesting early call which highlights the appalling
inconsistency in our officials, Burnley fans will know what I
mean…. just a week ago, Burnley concede the softest of penalties
for a foot tap at Villa in the dying stages. Tonight, Udogie is
kicked in a similar vein on his ankle, no penalty.
>
> Make it make sense…
>
--- End Quote ---
Appalling inconsistency!!
It does seem that people can just come on here and say what they
like. I bet if you did the washing up 50 times you’d do it
differently 50 times. And that’s easier to do than making
decisions in a fast pace game whilst trying to take into account
every so called similar decision that has ever been made in the
past.
[/quote]
My point is, they have VAR and come to a completely different
decision on the same incident. It is virtually identical in
fact as an incident. Neither should be penalties, so why was
last week’s one given??!!
[/quote]
I don’t know. Why can a player take 2 penalties, score one and
put one wide?
Maybe because that’s just the way life works?
Nothing is really ever the same is it? There are always
differences.
[/quote]
Not necessarily. Some things are the same for example a headbutt
is a headbutt and a punch is a punch. Okay when it comes to
things like contact then yeah there will always be differences
as one referee will see it one way and one won't which is why
people get frustrated with VAR as they'll get involved one week
and won't the next for the same incident.
[/quote]
You can’t refer to “the same incident” when just a few words
earlier you have said “there will always be differences” I
think?!?! It can’t be both.
[/quote]
I'm saying that's why people get frustrated by VAR. I try and
look at incidents on there own merit but also do take in to
account decisions that have happened before when making my mind
up about a decision.
[/quote]
They’re different things Rhys. Own merit and taking previous
things into account can’t be combined. If you’re doing one you
can’t be doing the other.
#Post#: 73731--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: Sheila
Date: January 5, 2024, 3:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rhys147 link ---
>
> [quote author=Sheila link=topic=5562.msg73721#msg73721
date=1704489254]
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73719#msg73719
date=1704488851]
> VAR was not brought in to re referee the game
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, it literally is to re referee the game.
"This was a mistake, we're going to re referee it to get the
correct outcome."
We can window dress however you want, but ultimately something
is being re refereed to get the correct(dubious) outcome.
[/quote]
Well i guess our definition of re refereeing is slightly
different. I don't think VAR coming in for a decision which is
quite clearly wrong is re refereeing where as when they come in
for a decision that is subjective then that is re refereeing the
game.
[/quote]
Sorry but how is it not.
In the instance of DCL yesterday, the incident was re refereed
from a non foul to a red card. In Liverpool @ Spurs, Diaz's
offside was re refereed from offside to onside (Just a shame
they forgot to tell the on field team but I digress)
We can use fancy words like correcting mistakes or the referee
has missed this etc etc but ultimately it's being re refereed.
#Post#: 73732--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: Rhys147
Date: January 5, 2024, 3:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Smithy link ---
>
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73719#msg73719
date=1704488851]
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=5562.msg73718#msg73718
date=1704488656]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73711#msg73711
date=1704487563]
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73710#msg73710
date=1704487115]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73706#msg73706
date=1704485538]
> Interesting early call which highlights the appalling
inconsistency in our officials, Burnley fans will know what I
mean…. just a week ago, Burnley concede the softest of penalties
for a foot tap at Villa in the dying stages. Tonight, Udogie is
kicked in a similar vein on his ankle, no penalty.
>
> Make it make sense…
>
--- End Quote ---
Appalling inconsistency!!
It does seem that people can just come on here and say what they
like. I bet if you did the washing up 50 times you’d do it
differently 50 times. And that’s easier to do than making
decisions in a fast pace game whilst trying to take into account
every so called similar decision that has ever been made in the
past.
[/quote]
My point is, they have VAR and come to a completely different
decision on the same incident. It is virtually identical in
fact as an incident. Neither should be penalties, so why was
last week’s one given??!!
[/quote]
First of all i agree that both the incidents you refer to should
not be penalties, i said as a villa fan last saturday it wasnt a
pen and a week later i still dont think it was. however their is
a huge difference, last saturday the referee gave a penalty and
var didnt think it clear and obvious to overturn as there was
contact whereas tonight the referee didnt give a penalty and var
saw no reason to overturn that decision so no penalty was given.
You cant keep re refereeing matches, you have to follow
protocols.
Mr Barrott has had an excellent half, very fit, positioning good
and all correct calls so far. I would say he looks a born
natural referee and i can see why he is being pushed so quickly.
Odd blips in performance will occur whilst on a meteoric rise of
such a young referee as was the case a few weeks ago when he was
at newcastle. He does seem to have the confidence and mental
strength to take it in his stride so should continue to be
pushed.
As for appalling inconsistency, i think one is looking through
white tinted glasses again during a game. If it was the same
referee and var you were comparing between tonights fame and the
villa game last saturday you might gain a little more credence,
as it is you are comparing apples with oranges as different
referees have different tolerance levels and see subjective
decisions differently.
[/quote]
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this comment. VAR
was not brought in to re referee the game it was brought in to
get involved when the referee made an absolute howler. I do
think we have gone away from this as VAR analyses every incident
because of how much supporters complain where as they should
only get involved when absolutely necessary.
[/quote]
This is what frustrates me about the VAR debate. Maybe it’s
right, it was brought in for the “shockers” but in reality that
was never going to be all it was used for and I don’t get why
people don’t get that.
In cricket technology wasn’t brought in so that someone can get
a decision changed because the ball pitched half an inch
differently but that’s what it is used for.
In rugby technology probably wasn’t introduced so that we can
see whether a players foot is a millimetre in touch before he
scores a try but that’s what it is used for.
As soon as technology was introduced in football it was always
going to be used for things other than solely the howlers or
shockers. And yet it still seems to be catching people by
surprise when this happens.
[/quote]
Well clearly that is the case but i'd say that they look at a
lot more incidents in football than rugby. Also, in rugby, the
referee still has the power to go against the TMO's where as in
football the culture is if the VAR advises you to change your
decision then you have to change it. Not sure on cricket as i've
never taken any interest in cricket.
#Post#: 73733--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: Rhys147
Date: January 5, 2024, 3:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Sheila link ---
>
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73728#msg73728
date=1704490411]
> [quote author=Sheila link=topic=5562.msg73721#msg73721
date=1704489254]
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73719#msg73719
date=1704488851]
> VAR was not brought in to re referee the game
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, it literally is to re referee the game.
"This was a mistake, we're going to re referee it to get the
correct outcome."
We can window dress however you want, but ultimately something
is being re refereed to get the correct(dubious) outcome.
[/quote]
Well i guess our definition of re refereeing is slightly
different. I don't think VAR coming in for a decision which is
quite clearly wrong is re refereeing where as when they come in
for a decision that is subjective then that is re refereeing the
game.
[/quote]
Sorry but how is it not.
In the instance of DCL yesterday, the incident was re refereed
from a non foul to a red card. In Liverpool @ Spurs, Diaz's
offside was re refereed from offside to onside (Just a shame
they forgot to tell the on field team but I digress)
We can use fancy words like correcting mistakes or the referee
has missed this etc etc but ultimately it's being re refereed.
[/quote]
Well they should never have got involved last night but that's a
different matter. If that's how you see it then that's your
choice i choose to look at it differently.
#Post#: 73734--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: Smithy
Date: January 5, 2024, 3:46 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rhys147 link ---
>
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73723#msg73723
date=1704489777]
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73719#msg73719
date=1704488851]
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=5562.msg73718#msg73718
date=1704488656]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73711#msg73711
date=1704487563]
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73710#msg73710
date=1704487115]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73706#msg73706
date=1704485538]
> Interesting early call which highlights the appalling
inconsistency in our officials, Burnley fans will know what I
mean…. just a week ago, Burnley concede the softest of penalties
for a foot tap at Villa in the dying stages. Tonight, Udogie is
kicked in a similar vein on his ankle, no penalty.
>
> Make it make sense…
>
--- End Quote ---
Appalling inconsistency!!
It does seem that people can just come on here and say what they
like. I bet if you did the washing up 50 times you’d do it
differently 50 times. And that’s easier to do than making
decisions in a fast pace game whilst trying to take into account
every so called similar decision that has ever been made in the
past.
[/quote]
My point is, they have VAR and come to a completely different
decision on the same incident. It is virtually identical in
fact as an incident. Neither should be penalties, so why was
last week’s one given??!!
[/quote]
First of all i agree that both the incidents you refer to should
not be penalties, i said as a villa fan last saturday it wasnt a
pen and a week later i still dont think it was. however their is
a huge difference, last saturday the referee gave a penalty and
var didnt think it clear and obvious to overturn as there was
contact whereas tonight the referee didnt give a penalty and var
saw no reason to overturn that decision so no penalty was given.
You cant keep re refereeing matches, you have to follow
protocols.
Mr Barrott has had an excellent half, very fit, positioning good
and all correct calls so far. I would say he looks a born
natural referee and i can see why he is being pushed so quickly.
Odd blips in performance will occur whilst on a meteoric rise of
such a young referee as was the case a few weeks ago when he was
at newcastle. He does seem to have the confidence and mental
strength to take it in his stride so should continue to be
pushed.
As for appalling inconsistency, i think one is looking through
white tinted glasses again during a game. If it was the same
referee and var you were comparing between tonights fame and the
villa game last saturday you might gain a little more credence,
as it is you are comparing apples with oranges as different
referees have different tolerance levels and see subjective
decisions differently.
[/quote]
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this comment. VAR
was not brought in to re referee the game it was brought in to
get involved when the referee made an absolute howler. I do
think we have gone away from this as VAR analyses every incident
because of how much supporters complain where as they should
only get involved when absolutely necessary.
[/quote]
This is what frustrates me about the VAR debate. Maybe it’s
right, it was brought in for the “shockers” but in reality that
was never going to be all it was used for and I don’t get why
people don’t get that.
In cricket technology wasn’t brought in so that someone can get
a decision changed because the ball pitched half an inch
differently but that’s what it is used for.
In rugby technology probably wasn’t introduced so that we can
see whether a players foot is a millimetre in touch before he
scores a try but that’s what it is used for.
As soon as technology was introduced in football it was always
going to be used for things other than solely the howlers or
shockers. And yet it still seems to be catching people by
surprise when this happens.
[/quote]
Well clearly that is the case but i'd say that they look at a
lot more incidents in football than rugby.
[/quote]
They do.
Wayne Barnes (rugby referee for those who don’t know) recently
commented that rugby has been using technology for 20+ years,
football for about 3. Maybe in 17 years football will use it as
well as rugby does.
I think generally speaking many peoples immediate expectations
of VAR are unreasonable and unrealistic.
#Post#: 73735--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: JMB1992
Date: January 5, 2024, 3:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Referee has done quite well here, not a nasty or tough game to
referee but has had a good grip. But 7 minutes is bizarre.
Physios haven’t been on once, a few subs and one goal. Mad
times.
#Post#: 73736--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: Rhys147
Date: January 5, 2024, 3:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Smithy link ---
>
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73726#msg73726
date=1704490268]
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73720#msg73720
date=1704488994]
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73717#msg73717
date=1704488387]
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73714#msg73714
date=1704488075]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73711#msg73711
date=1704487563]
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73710#msg73710
date=1704487115]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73706#msg73706
date=1704485538]
> Interesting early call which highlights the appalling
inconsistency in our officials, Burnley fans will know what I
mean…. just a week ago, Burnley concede the softest of penalties
for a foot tap at Villa in the dying stages. Tonight, Udogie is
kicked in a similar vein on his ankle, no penalty.
>
> Make it make sense…
>
--- End Quote ---
Appalling inconsistency!!
It does seem that people can just come on here and say what they
like. I bet if you did the washing up 50 times you’d do it
differently 50 times. And that’s easier to do than making
decisions in a fast pace game whilst trying to take into account
every so called similar decision that has ever been made in the
past.
[/quote]
My point is, they have VAR and come to a completely different
decision on the same incident. It is virtually identical in
fact as an incident. Neither should be penalties, so why was
last week’s one given??!!
[/quote]
I don’t know. Why can a player take 2 penalties, score one and
put one wide?
Maybe because that’s just the way life works?
Nothing is really ever the same is it? There are always
differences.
[/quote]
Not necessarily. Some things are the same for example a headbutt
is a headbutt and a punch is a punch. Okay when it comes to
things like contact then yeah there will always be differences
as one referee will see it one way and one won't which is why
people get frustrated with VAR as they'll get involved one week
and won't the next for the same incident.
[/quote]
You can’t refer to “the same incident” when just a few words
earlier you have said “there will always be differences” I
think?!?! It can’t be both.
[/quote]
I'm saying that's why people get frustrated by VAR. I try and
look at incidents on there own merit but also do take in to
account decisions that have happened before when making my mind
up about a decision.
[/quote]
They’re different things Rhys. Own merit and taking previous
things into account can’t be combined. If you’re doing one you
can’t be doing the other.
[/quote]
Well it's worked well for me so far and i'm not going to change
how i view things.
#Post#: 73738--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: Rhys147
Date: January 5, 2024, 4:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Smithy link ---
>
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73732#msg73732
date=1704490714]
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73723#msg73723
date=1704489777]
> [quote author=Rhys147 link=topic=5562.msg73719#msg73719
date=1704488851]
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=5562.msg73718#msg73718
date=1704488656]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73711#msg73711
date=1704487563]
> [quote author=Smithy link=topic=5562.msg73710#msg73710
date=1704487115]
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5562.msg73706#msg73706
date=1704485538]
> Interesting early call which highlights the appalling
inconsistency in our officials, Burnley fans will know what I
mean…. just a week ago, Burnley concede the softest of penalties
for a foot tap at Villa in the dying stages. Tonight, Udogie is
kicked in a similar vein on his ankle, no penalty.
>
> Make it make sense…
>
--- End Quote ---
Appalling inconsistency!!
It does seem that people can just come on here and say what they
like. I bet if you did the washing up 50 times you’d do it
differently 50 times. And that’s easier to do than making
decisions in a fast pace game whilst trying to take into account
every so called similar decision that has ever been made in the
past.
[/quote]
My point is, they have VAR and come to a completely different
decision on the same incident. It is virtually identical in
fact as an incident. Neither should be penalties, so why was
last week’s one given??!!
[/quote]
First of all i agree that both the incidents you refer to should
not be penalties, i said as a villa fan last saturday it wasnt a
pen and a week later i still dont think it was. however their is
a huge difference, last saturday the referee gave a penalty and
var didnt think it clear and obvious to overturn as there was
contact whereas tonight the referee didnt give a penalty and var
saw no reason to overturn that decision so no penalty was given.
You cant keep re refereeing matches, you have to follow
protocols.
Mr Barrott has had an excellent half, very fit, positioning good
and all correct calls so far. I would say he looks a born
natural referee and i can see why he is being pushed so quickly.
Odd blips in performance will occur whilst on a meteoric rise of
such a young referee as was the case a few weeks ago when he was
at newcastle. He does seem to have the confidence and mental
strength to take it in his stride so should continue to be
pushed.
As for appalling inconsistency, i think one is looking through
white tinted glasses again during a game. If it was the same
referee and var you were comparing between tonights fame and the
villa game last saturday you might gain a little more credence,
as it is you are comparing apples with oranges as different
referees have different tolerance levels and see subjective
decisions differently.
[/quote]
I think you've hit the nail on the head with this comment. VAR
was not brought in to re referee the game it was brought in to
get involved when the referee made an absolute howler. I do
think we have gone away from this as VAR analyses every incident
because of how much supporters complain where as they should
only get involved when absolutely necessary.
[/quote]
This is what frustrates me about the VAR debate. Maybe it’s
right, it was brought in for the “shockers” but in reality that
was never going to be all it was used for and I don’t get why
people don’t get that.
In cricket technology wasn’t brought in so that someone can get
a decision changed because the ball pitched half an inch
differently but that’s what it is used for.
In rugby technology probably wasn’t introduced so that we can
see whether a players foot is a millimetre in touch before he
scores a try but that’s what it is used for.
As soon as technology was introduced in football it was always
going to be used for things other than solely the howlers or
shockers. And yet it still seems to be catching people by
surprise when this happens.
[/quote]
Well clearly that is the case but i'd say that they look at a
lot more incidents in football than rugby.
[/quote]
They do.
Wayne Barnes (rugby referee for those who don’t know) recently
commented that rugby has been using technology for 20+ years,
football for about 3. Maybe in 17 years football will use it as
well as rugby does.
I think generally speaking many peoples immediate expectations
of VAR are unreasonable and unrealistic.
[/quote]
That maybe so but in rugby you know excactly what they are going
to come in for even when it 1st begun 20 years ago. In football
you have no idea when they will or won't come in except for
offsides, handballs leading to a goal and mistaken identity.
#Post#: 73741--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: rustyref
Date: January 5, 2024, 4:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JMB1992 link ---
>
> Referee has done quite well here, not a nasty or tough game to
referee but has had a good grip. But 7 minutes is bizarre.
Physios haven’t been on once, a few subs and one goal. Mad
times.
>
--- End Quote ---
I must have imagined Charlie Taylor going down with an injured
shoulder and needing treatment before being subbed. That one
alone took at least 90 seconds. 5 sub windows, 2 of which were
triples and took well over a minute each. Took a minute after
the goal. I guessed at 6 minutes so 7 certainly isn't
excessive.
#Post#: 73742--------------------------------------------------
Re: Sam Barrett - Spurs vs. Burnley
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: January 5, 2024, 4:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JMB1992 link ---
>
> Referee has done quite well here, not a nasty or tough game to
referee but has had a good grip. But 7 minutes is bizarre.
Physios haven’t been on once, a few subs and one goal. Mad
times.
>
--- End Quote ---
You seem to have forgottten that Charlie Taylor, the Burnley
left back, injured his shoulder and the physios came on and it
took almost 2 minutes for treatment and eventual removal. They
were then not allowed to bring a sub on for him, although one
was ready.
Spurs scored a goals and iy was almost one and half minutes
before the game restarted. Spurs also got a free kick late on
that three players addressed the ball but then left it for
another.
7 minutes were about right as far as I could see. One thing that
struck me on tonight's match was the fact that so many Spurs
players fall over for absolutely nothing, just the same as so
many other Premier League players.
Sam Barrott refereed very well indeed as he has done in the
other matches I have seen him referee this season.
*****************************************************
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