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#Post#: 72096--------------------------------------------------
Re: A.madley palace v Liverpool
DIR By: TVOS
Date: December 9, 2023, 6:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: robbie_scouse link ---
>
> Let’s all stop commenting - and it’s rare I do - the direction
is clear, let’s just take the opinion of Roy Hodgon and Acme
Thunderer and have done with it.
> Mr Madley wasn’t great today, as I said earlier, but it’s not
costing Hodgson his job. Hyperbole at its greatest. 1-0 up with
15 minutes left and a man down doesn’t automatically mean you
lose. You can adapt your tactics.
>
--- End Quote ---
That’s a rather unfair comment about AT given his respected
contributions on here down the years.
#Post#: 72099--------------------------------------------------
Re: MADLEY MADNESS
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 9, 2023, 8:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Rory Stride link=topic=5452.msg72055#msg72055
date=1702143415]
> Genuine question to someone on here who probably knows the law
better than me, What would the restart be if the Palace player
was offside?
> Does Madley get sent to the screen, come back and give
offside? Is it play on, ignore the penalty incident? or is it
just given as offside on the pitch?
>
--- End Quote ---
It would be an indirect free kick for offside as that happened
before any potential penalty. Referees only go to the screen
for offsides when there is a subjective question mark as to
whether the offside player is interfering with an opponent.
[/quote]
You can imagine the confusion that would cause if play was
suddenly pulled back for the offside after two minutes!
Presumably if say Liverpool had scored in the meantime then the
referee would need to go to the screen to confirm they thought
it was a penalty as if they didn't then the Liverpool goal could
stand?
#Post#: 72110--------------------------------------------------
Re: MADLEY MADNESS
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 10, 2023, 3:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5452.msg72079#msg72079
date=1702152718]
> [quote author=Rory Stride link=topic=5452.msg72055#msg72055
date=1702143415]
> Genuine question to someone on here who probably knows the law
better than me, What would the restart be if the Palace player
was offside?
> Does Madley get sent to the screen, come back and give
offside? Is it play on, ignore the penalty incident? or is it
just given as offside on the pitch?
>
--- End Quote ---
It would be an indirect free kick for offside as that happened
before any potential penalty. Referees only go to the screen
for offsides when there is a subjective question mark as to
whether the offside player is interfering with an opponent.
[/quote]
You can imagine the confusion that would cause if play was
suddenly pulled back for the offside after two minutes!
Presumably if say Liverpool had scored in the meantime then the
referee would need to go to the screen to confirm they thought
it was a penalty as if they didn't then the Liverpool goal could
stand?
[/quote]
Yes, if Liverpool had scored the goal would be cancelled to
award the penalty to Crystal Palace. It would be confusing,
which is why they need to get much better at announcing what is
happening to the crowd.
#Post#: 72111--------------------------------------------------
Re: MADLEY MADNESS
DIR By: Ashington46
Date: December 10, 2023, 3:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=5452.msg72099#msg72099
date=1702174889]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5452.msg72079#msg72079
date=1702152718]
> [quote author=Rory Stride link=topic=5452.msg72055#msg72055
date=1702143415]
> Genuine question to someone on here who probably knows the law
better than me, What would the restart be if the Palace player
was offside?
> Does Madley get sent to the screen, come back and give
offside? Is it play on, ignore the penalty incident? or is it
just given as offside on the pitch?
>
--- End Quote ---
It would be an indirect free kick for offside as that happened
before any potential penalty. Referees only go to the screen
for offsides when there is a subjective question mark as to
whether the offside player is interfering with an opponent.
[/quote]
You can imagine the confusion that would cause if play was
suddenly pulled back for the offside after two minutes!
Presumably if say Liverpool had scored in the meantime then the
referee would need to go to the screen to confirm they thought
it was a penalty as if they didn't then the Liverpool goal could
stand?
[/quote]
Yes, if Liverpool had scored the goal would be cancelled to
award the penalty to Crystal Palace. It would be confusing,
which is why they need to get much better at announcing what is
happening to the crowd.
[/quote]
A similar thing happened at Turf Moor in February 2020 with Mike
Dean in charge (perhaps bmb will remember this).
VAR was involved three times in this game, one of us wondering
just what constituted handball (nothing has changed) and, to be
honest, I could not understand why the AR did not flag for ths
handball in this incident.
I have copied the report from my friend, Tony Scholes, because
he describes the incident perfectly.
"............Just a few minutes later we witnessed one of the
most bizarre of events I’ve ever seen at the Turf. Dwight
McNeil, of whom I’ll write later, crossed the ball from the
left. Adam Smith, in trying to deflect the ball away from Jeff
Hendrick, handled the ball. The voice to my right immediately
shouted: “Penalty,” but we played on with referee Mike Dean
definitely unsighted.
What complicated matters was that 16 seconds after Smith had
handled the ball, Harry Wilson had put the ball into the net at
the other end for what he thought was the Bournemouth equaliser.
While all that was going on, Kavanagh was checking and, from
what I’ve seen since, he undoubtedly got it correct when he
indicated a Burnley penalty.
Jay Rod stepped up to scored the spot kick so instead of 1-1 it
was 2-0 to us and Dean then had to go over and sort out those
tantrums. I thought, initially, that Jason Tindall had been sent
off, but it was Neil Moss who walked down and climbed into the
cricket field end................"
#Post#: 72114--------------------------------------------------
Re: MADLEY MADNESS
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 10, 2023, 5:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=5452.msg72099#msg72099
date=1702174889]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5452.msg72079#msg72079
date=1702152718]
> [quote author=Rory Stride link=topic=5452.msg72055#msg72055
date=1702143415]
> Genuine question to someone on here who probably knows the law
better than me, What would the restart be if the Palace player
was offside?
> Does Madley get sent to the screen, come back and give
offside? Is it play on, ignore the penalty incident? or is it
just given as offside on the pitch?
>
--- End Quote ---
It would be an indirect free kick for offside as that happened
before any potential penalty. Referees only go to the screen
for offsides when there is a subjective question mark as to
whether the offside player is interfering with an opponent.
[/quote]
You can imagine the confusion that would cause if play was
suddenly pulled back for the offside after two minutes!
Presumably if say Liverpool had scored in the meantime then the
referee would need to go to the screen to confirm they thought
it was a penalty as if they didn't then the Liverpool goal could
stand?
[/quote]
Yes, if Liverpool had scored the goal would be cancelled to
award the penalty to Crystal Palace. It would be confusing,
which is why they need to get much better at announcing what is
happening to the crowd.
[/quote]
To clarify, I was responding to the hypothetical scenario where
there had been an offside in the build-up - i.e. the order was
offside, penalty appeal which VAR believed was a penalty,
Liverpool goal.
#Post#: 72116--------------------------------------------------
Re: A.madley palace v Liverpool
DIR By: Scally Bob
Date: December 10, 2023, 5:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It’s not often I agree with Hodgson (whose reputation for being
some sort of football genius baffles me as he’s never won
anything other than a Scandinavian league equivalent to the
Conference at best and his teams are always dull anti-football
spoilers) but he’s right that VAR is crippling the game. It’s
more inconsistent than any referee ever was. For example the VAR
was checking for an offside before the award of Palace’s second
penalty but the first of three corners right at the end of the
game was the result of a Palace player interfering with an
opponent whilst being offside. I’m certain a PL AR can see that
but with this nonsense about keeping the flag down it wasn’t
given. This happens all the time and it’s a ridiculous change to
accommodate VAR which in my opinion doesn’t work, never will and
ruins the spectacle of live football.
#Post#: 72125--------------------------------------------------
Re: A.madley palace v Liverpool
DIR By: bmb
Date: December 10, 2023, 7:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ashington46 link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5452.msg72110#msg72110
date=1702200505]
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=5452.msg72099#msg72099
date=1702174889]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5452.msg72079#msg72079
date=1702152718]
> [quote author=Rory Stride link=topic=5452.msg72055#msg72055
date=1702143415]
> Genuine question to someone on here who probably knows the law
better than me, What would the restart be if the Palace player
was offside?
> Does Madley get sent to the screen, come back and give
offside? Is it play on, ignore the penalty incident? or is it
just given as offside on the pitch?
>
--- End Quote ---
It would be an indirect free kick for offside as that happened
before any potential penalty. Referees only go to the screen
for offsides when there is a subjective question mark as to
whether the offside player is interfering with an opponent.
[/quote]
You can imagine the confusion that would cause if play was
suddenly pulled back for the offside after two minutes!
Presumably if say Liverpool had scored in the meantime then the
referee would need to go to the screen to confirm they thought
it was a penalty as if they didn't then the Liverpool goal could
stand?
[/quote]
Yes, if Liverpool had scored the goal would be cancelled to
award the penalty to Crystal Palace. It would be confusing,
which is why they need to get much better at announcing what is
happening to the crowd.
[/quote]
A similar thing happened at Turf Moor in February 2020 with Mike
Dean in charge (perhaps bmb will remember this).
VAR was involved three times in this game, one of us wondering
just what constituted handball (nothing has changed) and, to be
honest, I could not understand why the AR did not flag for ths
handball in this incident.
I have copied the report from my friend, Tony Scholes, because
he describes the incident perfectly.
"............Just a few minutes later we witnessed one of the
most bizarre of events I’ve ever seen at the Turf. Dwight
McNeil, of whom I’ll write later, crossed the ball from the
left. Adam Smith, in trying to deflect the ball away from Jeff
Hendrick, handled the ball. The voice to my right immediately
shouted: “Penalty,” but we played on with referee Mike Dean
definitely unsighted.
What complicated matters was that 16 seconds after Smith had
handled the ball, Harry Wilson had put the ball into the net at
the other end for what he thought was the Bournemouth equaliser.
While all that was going on, Kavanagh was checking and, from
what I’ve seen since, he undoubtedly got it correct when he
indicated a Burnley penalty.
Jay Rod stepped up to scored the spot kick so instead of 1-1 it
was 2-0 to us and Dean then had to go over and sort out those
tantrums. I thought, initially, that Jason Tindall had been sent
off, but it was Neil Moss who walked down and climbed into the
cricket field end................"
[/quote]
I do indeed remember. I was cussing lots when I thought JT had
been sent off, probably a good job only my computer screen and
the bmb zoo could hear what I was saying. Had I have repeated it
on here I'd have have had to give myself a ban!! That game is
still regularly cussed about in Dean Court circles.
#Post#: 72132--------------------------------------------------
Re: A.madley palace v Liverpool
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 10, 2023, 8:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scally Bob link ---
>
> It’s not often I agree with Hodgson (whose reputation for
being some sort of football genius baffles me as he’s never won
anything other than a Scandinavian league equivalent to the
Conference at best and his teams are always dull anti-football
spoilers) but he’s right that VAR is crippling the game. It’s
more inconsistent than any referee ever was. For example the VAR
was checking for an offside before the award of Palace’s second
penalty but the first of three corners right at the end of the
game was the result of a Palace player interfering with an
opponent whilst being offside. I’m certain a PL AR can see that
but with this nonsense about keeping the flag down it wasn’t
given. This happens all the time and it’s a ridiculous change to
accommodate VAR which in my opinion doesn’t work, never will and
ruins the spectacle of live football.
>
--- End Quote ---
The AR is always required to raise their flag for offside when
the move comes to an end if they believe there was an offside
offence. If they don't raise the flag they've missed the
offside.
#Post#: 72136--------------------------------------------------
Re: A.madley palace v Liverpool
DIR By: Scally Bob
Date: December 10, 2023, 10:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JMB1992 link ---
>
> (Edited), Liverpool benefit again from his madness. Ayew sent
off for a second yellow for the most innocuous of fouls. How
many more decisions can go the Reds’ way?! Absolutely horrific
officiating.
>
--- End Quote ---
This angle shows Ayew committing the foul. Gomez is free and
Liverpool players outnumber Palace defenders on this side of the
pitch. The foul looks to be a perfect example of stopping a
promising attack.
#Post#: 72139--------------------------------------------------
Re: A.madley palace v Liverpool
DIR By: takethejag
Date: December 10, 2023, 11:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scally Bob link ---
>
> [quote author=JMB1992 link=topic=5452.msg72032#msg72032
date=1702130895]
> (Edited), Liverpool benefit again from his madness. Ayew sent
off for a second yellow for the most innocuous of fouls. How
many more decisions can go the Reds’ way?! Absolutely horrific
officiating.
>
--- End Quote ---
This angle shows Ayew committing the foul. Gomez is free and
Liverpool players outnumber Palace defenders on this side of the
pitch. The foul looks to be a perfect example of stopping a
promising attack.
[/quote]
So why did I get a 'disagree' rather than agreement when I
pointed out this was a 'bog-standard' yellow card?
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