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#Post#: 71851--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: December 4, 2023, 2:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Ref Watcher link=topic=5433.msg71812#msg71812
date=1701702992]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5433.msg71774#msg71774
date=1701640206]
> If you speak to any referee they will tell you they have done
this. It is a horrible sinking feeling when you realise you
have blown the whistle just as a striker has broken clear. Not
the same level but I did it in an Isthmian League local derby in
front of over 1000 spectators, one of which was the Chairman of
my county FA, I beat myself up about it for days.
>
> Just one of those things, a human error, just like Erling
Haaland missing a near open goal was a human error.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have certainly done it too. I found the key thing to heading
off the sort of reaction that the Manchester City players
produced is the referee's reaction: body language and words. A
literal hands-up and "sorry, I messed up" will defuse a lot of
it. It's harder to angry with someone who is already beating
themselves up about it. Even if it doesn't placate the real
hot-heads there are usually calmer voices nearby who will accept
that a genuine error has been made and take them away.
[/quote]
Agree, but I don't think anything he did here was going to calm
people down. It was the perfect storm, score at 3-3 and last
few seconds of the game. Also think he was absolutely correct
to let the dissent go, waving cards around for dissent when
you've just made a clanger like that isn't going to cast you in
a good light.
[/quote]
Why? If a player receives a YC for dissent for disagreeing with
a decision and that decision is subsequently reversed then the
YC isn't also reversed.
#Post#: 71852--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: JMB1992
Date: December 4, 2023, 2:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
4 pages dedicated to a split second error at the end of a superb
performance by Mr Hooper. He’s had some really difficult games
spanning Easter time through to now, but here he was at his non
interfering best. A shame the incident came in the 94th minute,
Grealish was clean through and it’s an unfortunate one. I feel
Hooper panicked and thought Grealish was offside so brought it
back. When the flag didn’t come to confirm, he must have known
he’d made a mistake. Have tremendous sympathy for those City
players and staff who conducted themselves with class as opposed
to Haaland and Grealish.
Under no circumstance should he be stood down or dropped to the
Championship. He did well here on the whole.
#Post#: 71854--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: December 4, 2023, 3:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: TheThingFromLewes link ---
>
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=5433.msg71839#msg71839
date=1701713935]
> [quote author=PhiltheRef link=topic=5433.msg71837#msg71837
date=1701712088]
> But no more charges will be brought!
> Individual players surrounding Hooper - no charge
> Players grabbing Hooper - no charge
> Grealish confronting 4O - no charge
> Haaland's outburst - no charge.
>
> Can anyone explain why?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes and in a single word. Spinelessness
[/quote]
Pusillanimousness is another word I’d use…
[/quote]
And so would I ( if only I knew what it meant [emoji6] )
#Post#: 71855--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: December 4, 2023, 3:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Hendo link ---
>
> [quote author=TheThingFromLewes
link=topic=5433.msg71835#msg71835 date=1701710852]
> Man City have been charged by the FA for failing to control
their players….
>
> Unsurprisingly.
>
--- End Quote ---
As a City fan I support this 100%. Unacceptable behaviour and a
punishment is well deserved. To even things up let’s see Hooper
sanctioned too for his part in this incident.
If I was Pep, rather than venting anger over incidents like
this, I would be spending my time asking serious questions of
our ability to close matches out. In recent weeks we have lost
to Arsenal with an 85th min goal, drawn with Chelsea after a
95th min equaliser, drawn with Liverpool after their goal in the
last 10 mins and now conceded a last min equaliser to Spurs.
Potentially 7 points lost there in games where we were ahead or
in control. The City of recent years would not have been as
careless I suggest
[/quote]
Hooper's part was to make an unfortunate error in not playing an
advantage after initially signalling one, which will not doubt
be reflected in his assessment. I didn't see him scream at
anyone, behave aggressively to anyone, lay his hands on anyone,
try and intimidate anyone. So by all means let the sanctions be
appropriate to the misdemeanours or in the old Gilbertian phrase
" let the punishment fit the crime "
#Post#: 71856--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: December 4, 2023, 3:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bruntyboy link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5433.msg71826#msg71826
date=1701708560]
> [quote author=Ref Watcher link=topic=5433.msg71812#msg71812
date=1701702992]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5433.msg71774#msg71774
date=1701640206]
> If you speak to any referee they will tell you they have done
this. It is a horrible sinking feeling when you realise you
have blown the whistle just as a striker has broken clear. Not
the same level but I did it in an Isthmian League local derby in
front of over 1000 spectators, one of which was the Chairman of
my county FA, I beat myself up about it for days.
>
> Just one of those things, a human error, just like Erling
Haaland missing a near open goal was a human error.
>
--- End Quote ---
I have certainly done it too. I found the key thing to heading
off the sort of reaction that the Manchester City players
produced is the referee's reaction: body language and words. A
literal hands-up and "sorry, I messed up" will defuse a lot of
it. It's harder to angry with someone who is already beating
themselves up about it. Even if it doesn't placate the real
hot-heads there are usually calmer voices nearby who will accept
that a genuine error has been made and take them away.
[/quote]
Agree, but I don't think anything he did here was going to calm
people down. It was the perfect storm, score at 3-3 and last
few seconds of the game. Also think he was absolutely correct
to let the dissent go, waving cards around for dissent when
you've just made a clanger like that isn't going to cast you in
a good light.
[/quote]
Why? If a player receives a YC for dissent for disagreeing with
a decision and that decision is subsequently reversed then the
YC isn't also reversed.
[/quote]
I don't believe a caution for dissent is administered for
disagreeing with a decision but the manner in which the
disagreement is expressed. That cause is unaltered by a
subsequent reversal of the decision.
#Post#: 71858--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: December 4, 2023, 3:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=TheThingFromLewes
link=topic=5433.msg71840#msg71840 date=1701714228]
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=5433.msg71839#msg71839
date=1701713935]
> [quote author=PhiltheRef link=topic=5433.msg71837#msg71837
date=1701712088]
> But no more charges will be brought!
> Individual players surrounding Hooper - no charge
> Players grabbing Hooper - no charge
> Grealish confronting 4O - no charge
> Haaland's outburst - no charge.
>
> Can anyone explain why?
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes and in a single word. Spinelessness
[/quote]
Pusillanimousness is another word I’d use…
[/quote]
And so would I ( if only I knew what it meant [emoji6] )
[/quote]
It looks like I’ve managed to stump the admirable Whistleblower
with an adjective! I feel honoured! 😁
The dictionary definition of Pusillanimousness is “lacking
courage and resolution”.
#Post#: 71859--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: JCFC
Date: December 4, 2023, 3:37 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, at least it is easier to say than pusillanimity, which was
the traditional usage.
#Post#: 71860--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: JCFC
Date: December 4, 2023, 3:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: JMB1992 link ---
>
>
> Under no circumstance should he be stood down or dropped to
the Championship.
>
--- End Quote ---
I am inclined to agree - and think it is high time that Darren
England was back refereeing in the Premier League.
#Post#: 71861--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: bmb
Date: December 4, 2023, 3:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> I will say as i did a few weeks back when Hooper was at Villa
Park, he looked a little bereft of confidence and this incident
wont have instilled any.
>
--- End Quote ---
He'll have a trip to Dean Court soon then. It has always been
his confidence ground. Before he was SG1 & we were still a L1/L2
team he was a regular and had a very good rapport with the
staff, the players and the fans at the club. He clearly enjoys
refereeing there and it always showed. Not suggesting any home
bias or anything like that, he gave decisions against us, most
right an occasional error but he would always relax and referee
well as a consequence. He was promoted to SG1 the year we first
got promoted to the PL and was still a regular. He struggled to
adapt to SG1 at first and every time they would send him to Dean
Court and he'd relax, referee well and get right back on track.
It would not surprise me to see him get the Luton game in a
couple of weeks time. He's always welcome at DC. We grew and
progressed together, us as a club, him as a ref - it's a good
headspace ground for him.
#Post#: 71865--------------------------------------------------
Re: S A HOOPER - Man C v Tottenham
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: December 4, 2023, 4:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> I feel a bit sorry for Hooper. As was said in today's Times I
thought he controlled the match perfectly well until that
fateful intervention. Rather like a Defence barrister making a
really good closing speech to the jury almost convincing them of
their client's innocence only to finish with a flourish " and so
ladies and gentlemen of the jury you surely can have no other
option than to find the defendant guilty...I mean not guilty "
>
> What is so strange is that Hooper signalled an advantage (
this rather wet one armed raised signal now used these days )
and then when the advantage accrued he brought it back. I can
only think that from his viewpoint it did not look like the
attacker had got possession of the ball and broken clear and so
to ensure justice awarded a free kick. A bit like ( though
nowhere near as bad ) as Brian Hill's infamous whistle for a
free kick in the 1988 Cup Final which you could argue helped
considerably towards Wimbledon's defeat of Liverpool.
>
> Mr Haaland has gone on social media describing it as a WTF
moment. If I were Hooper I would be sorely tempted to go on
social media myself and show Haaland's appalling miss in front
of an open goal ( this by a multi million pound a year striker
let us not forget ) and say WTF; but of course that would get
him into trouble. No level playing field when it comes to airing
opinions publicly.
>
--- End Quote ---
Fantastic post, as per usual Whistleblower. A perfect and
succinct summary. Felt compelled to comment rather than just hit
agree!!
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