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#Post#: 71781--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: Tweed
Date: December 3, 2023, 5:27 pm
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I thought Milner's hand was a wee bit high and therefore I think
it was a foul, I also think the keeper was getting the ball
either way so I think no red card is fine.
The penalty at the end was an absolute shocker, thank God VAR
was there.
Interesting that both De Zerbi and Gilmour didn't complain about
the penalty awarded in their interviews but instead about how
they opened up.
#Post#: 71785--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: Arbitre anglais
Date: December 4, 2023, 12:57 am
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--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=5431.msg71766#msg71766
date=1701637174]
> I think that Pawson was correct with restart based on what's
been described but I agree it seems a bit of an odd law.
>
> I remember a Reading game in 2016, not involving VAR, where
the referee initially awarded Reading a penalty after a good
tackle by a Hull defender. The assistant called the referee over
to advise it had been a clean tackle and so play restarted with
the Reading corner as the whistle had not gone until the ball
was out of play. This seems a much more logical approach to me -
as mentioned it seems odd that Brighton don't even get a corner
due to a poor referee decision (it's obviously different if play
is stopped with the ball still in play.)
>
--- End Quote ---
First of all the incident didnt have var so probably correct in
law to restart that way.
With var, i assume, the game is deemed to have stopped at the
point of the infringement or non infringement in this case, not
when the referee gives the erroneous decision, hence drop ball
to defending team(goalkeeper).
Secondly only the referee will know when he has blown his
whistle for the alleged infringement and it may have been before
the ball went out of play.
[/quote]
It’s actually no different because of VAR - all depends where
ball was when whistle blown. If ball is already out (eg tackle
sends ball behind) before the whistle, then if the PK is
cancelled, it should be a corner. Often happens other way - ref
points for a corner but AR flags for a PK which is then given.
Only a drop ball if whistle stopped game while ball was in play.
PL refs do seem to (wrongly IMO) automatically default to a drop
ball after a VAR check cancels a penalty.
#Post#: 71788--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: ajb95
Date: December 4, 2023, 3:07 am
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--- Quote from: Tweed link ---
>
>
> Interesting that both De Zerbi and Gilmour didn't complain
about the penalty awarded in their interviews but instead about
how they opened up.
>
--- End Quote ---
That’s because he had 2 bans last season and has one lingering
over him if he puts one foot out of line
#Post#: 71795--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
Date: December 4, 2023, 5:13 am
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The Premier League doesn't have Caicedo down as being booked. I
was sure he had been, but it is Badiashile who is carded rather
than Caicedo.
This makes the decision not to show him a yellow card after that
even more surprising.
#Post#: 71809--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 4, 2023, 8:51 am
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Dale Johnson says that play should have restarted with Brighton
corner rather than a dropped ball as ball had already gone out
of play.
I'm not sure where the wording of the Q&A above came from but I
presume it was some form of VAR protocol. Presuming that Johnson
is correct then if so I think the wording could be made clearer
by explaining what should happen if ball was already out of
play.
And if Johnson's correct then the officials should really be
getting the restart right.
#Post#: 71818--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: Claretman
Date: December 4, 2023, 10:20 am
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--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> Dale Johnson says that play should have restarted with
Brighton corner rather than a dropped ball as ball had already
gone out of play.
>
> I'm not sure where the wording of the Q&A above came from but
I presume it was some form of VAR protocol. Presuming that
Johnson is correct then if so I think the wording could be made
clearer by explaining what should happen if ball was already out
of play.
>
> And if Johnson's correct then the officials should really be
getting the restart right.
>
--- End Quote ---
My Q and A came from espn website, is not Johnson involved in
that?
Again the referee is the arbiter of when he blew his whistle,
unless var can prove conclusively different.
I think arbitre anglais said english referees get the
interpretation of how to restart in such a situation wrong, so i
would guess it is a guideline ffom the pgmol to restart in the
way that Pawson did.
#Post#: 71824--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: rustyref
Date: December 4, 2023, 10:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> I'm not sure where the wording of the Q&A above came from but
I presume it was some form of VAR protocol. Presuming that
Johnson is correct then if so I think the wording could be made
clearer by explaining what should happen if ball was already out
of play.
>
--- End Quote ---
From the ESPN website, article written by the man himself Dale
Johnson. There's nothing published by IFAB or FIFA, so I
suspect it is just his interpretation.
HTML https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37575726/the-ultimate-guide-var-premier-league-all-your-questions-answered
What the VAR protocol says is this ...
Final decision
• When the review process is completed, the referee must
show the ‘TV signal’ and communicate the final decision
• The referee will then take/change/rescind any
disciplinary action (where appropriate) and restart play in
accordance with the Laws of the Game
I've long thought that Dale Johnson, whilst certainly having
made an effort to learn about VAR, isn't quite the authority on
it that he is made out to be. Evidenced that his view that this
should have been a corner directly conflicts with the article
that he himself wrote.
#Post#: 71875--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 4, 2023, 6:12 pm
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The wording above doesn't seem entirely clear. What is the
correct restart in accordance with the laws of the game in such
a situation? It really should be something that IFAB/FIFA have
made clear with no room for ambiguity.
#Post#: 71878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: Arbitre anglais
Date: December 5, 2023, 12:48 am
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--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> The wording above doesn't seem entirely clear. What is the
correct restart in accordance with the laws of the game in such
a situation? It really should be something that IFAB/FIFA have
made clear with no room for ambiguity.
>
--- End Quote ---
I suppose they think it is clear. ‘In accordance with laws’
catches everthing (ie whatever the restart would be - goal kick,
free kick, corner, etc) if ball out already of play and dropped
ball if play stopped (but now decide that’s erroneous).
Conversely, if it was always meant to be a drop ball, they could
say that easily. ‘If a penalty decision is reversed, play
restarts with a dropped ball). We mustn’t forget, sometimes play
has gone on for a while before the OFR, even to the other end.
If ref decide still no penalty, s/he wouldn’t then go back and
give a drop ball to the GK at that end; s/he’d just play on from
where play was stopped.
Reminds me of violent conduct - if ball goes out for a goal kick
and defender then punches attacker in area, it’s a red card but
still a goal kick (original restart).
#Post#: 71910--------------------------------------------------
Re: Craig Pawson - Chelsea vs Brighton
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: December 5, 2023, 10:08 am
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Dale Johnson has clarified that he had it confirmed from PGMOL
and IFAB before he published his VAR review article yesterday
that play should restart with a corner in such circumstances.
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