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       #Post#: 70762--------------------------------------------------
       Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Rory Stride
       Date: November 9, 2023, 6:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Honestly I don't know where to start. Yes I am biased, and we
       have had some shockers in European competitions, but the
       officiating tonight was abysmal from minute 1. First 30 minutes
       every contact was a foul. The next 30 minutes nothing was.
       Random foul detection, very random with the cards. Endo was
       right to only get yellow- it was on the foot not on the shin
       like Rashford.
       Toulouse where lucky that he chose to call a very soft foul on
       Matip to disallow a second goal for them.
       However, the disallowed goal in the last minute, just about sums
       it up. One of the worst decisions I have seen. Firstly, its not
       actually a handball, even if it hits his hand it comes of his
       chest first and it certainly isn't deliberate. Secondly its 19
       seconds before the goal and Toulouse have cleared the ball out
       three times. I thought if it wasn't the goalscorer it had to be
       deliberate, or is that just another rule for the premier league
       which is different in the UCL. Its ridiculous that the different
       competitions have completely different rules and
       interpretations, just like Man United and the ridiculous
       penalties last night, it gives our officials no chance in
       Europe. No way that goal is ruled out in England, its
       re-refereeing.
       The Referee looked completely out of place right from the start.
       Just to make it even more confusing to everyone, during the
       check he pointed towards the centre cricle signalling goal, and
       he walked towards the middle, then he was called for a review.
       Also, UEFA then orginially put up the graphic saying checking
       for a foul as he was looking at the screen, what foul?
       #Post#: 70765--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Ref95
       Date: November 10, 2023, 3:21 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I can’t claim to have seen the rest of the game, but I have seen
       the disallowed goal at the end. Which is an absurd decision in
       my opinion.
       Firstly, it’s not in the same phase of play so VAR shouldn’t be
       getting involved. Secondly, it isn’t the scorer who ‘handles’ it
       so cannot be ruled out on this basis. Thirdly, I’m convinced it
       isn’t actually a handball, the ball comes off his chest first
       and then onto his arm and from what I’ve seen, it doesn’t hit
       anywhere below the t-shirt line.
       #Post#: 70770--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: November 10, 2023, 5:56 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Under the current laws there is nothing to say that a deflection
       from your body onto your arm rules out a handball offence, that
       was taken out in the last rewrite.  So the only decision is was
       the handling intentional, and it is classed as intentional if
       the arm isn't in a supportable action for the football action
       being performed.  His arms were out from his body, so the
       question is why.  He would probably argue for balance, but we
       see all the time this is penalised.  Once I saw it I was
       expecting it to be given, especially in a UEFA game.
       All the VAR protocol says is that the attacking phase of play
       (APP) may need to be checked when a goal is scored, it doesn't
       say how far back that can go.  My understanding is UEFA class
       the end of the APP as when the opposition gain possession or the
       ball goes out of play, that didn't happen here as a clearance
       wouldn't classify as the end of the APP.
       #Post#: 70773--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Rory Stride
       Date: November 10, 2023, 7:13 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       What makes it worse is when you concede a goal after a much
       blatant handball on Sunday, yet on Thursday they come back for
       an accidental questionable handball, after the referee even
       pointed to the spot signalling a goal and check over
       #Post#: 70774--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Affy_Moose
       Date: November 10, 2023, 7:23 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: rustyref link ---
       >
       > Under the current laws there is nothing to say that a
       deflection from your body onto your arm rules out a handball
       offence, that was taken out in the last rewrite.  So the only
       decision is was the handling intentional, and it is classed as
       intentional if the arm isn't in a supportable action for the
       football action being performed.  His arms were out from his
       body, so the question is why.  He would probably argue for
       balance, but we see all the time this is penalised.  Once I saw
       it I was expecting it to be given, especially in a UEFA game.
       >
       > All the VAR protocol says is that the attacking phase of play
       (APP) may need to be checked when a goal is scored, it doesn't
       say how far back that can go.  My understanding is UEFA class
       the end of the APP as when the opposition gain possession or the
       ball goes out of play, that didn't happen here as a clearance
       wouldn't classify as the end of the APP.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I know that UEFA guidance provides *some* leeway on deflections,
       albeit - as you say - it's not written in the LotG.  Similarly,
       a player protecting his face and 'deliberately' handling the
       ball shouldn't be penalised - from memory, that isn't in the
       LotG either.
       The handball is a difficult one - we see them given for
       penalties in Europe, and I doubt it would be have been given in
       England.  The game would benefit from the guidance/instruction
       given to officials to be more available to the public, but we've
       known for some time how little leeway is given in Europe.  We
       might not like it, but it's pretty consistent.
       As for the APP, it's clearly in the same attacking phase of
       play.  A defensive touch (failed clearance) does not nullify the
       APP - particularly when it's a minor touch in the penalty area
       that effectively has no impact on the attacking phase.  To add
       to your points above, Rusty, the APP also resets when an attack
       restarts (otherwise, you could have an APP that lasts a few
       minutes - the target is to have APPs that are only 10-20 seconds
       long).
       #Post#: 70775--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: ajb95
       Date: November 10, 2023, 8:55 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Awful decision end of.
       #Post#: 70776--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Whistleblower
       Date: November 10, 2023, 10:14 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Apologies, pressed the 'funny' icon by mistake on reply #2 and
       there appears to be no way to retract it.
       #Post#: 70779--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
       Date: November 10, 2023, 11:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
       >
       > Apologies, pressed the 'funny' icon by mistake on reply #2 and
       there appears to be no way to retract it.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It’s quite a familiar thing for unintentional finger tapping on
       the emoticons on this site, and no way to remove said “error” if
       you’ve quit from the page and moved on. I’ve done it many a time
       unfortunately!
       #Post#: 70780--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Leggy
       Date: November 10, 2023, 12:58 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: TheThingFromLewes link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=5367.msg70776#msg70776
       date=1699632863]
       > Apologies, pressed the 'funny' icon by mistake on reply #2 and
       there appears to be no way to retract it.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It’s quite a familiar thing for unintentional finger tapping on
       the emoticons on this site, and no way to remove said “error” if
       you’ve quit from the page and moved on. I’ve done it many a time
       unfortunately!
       [/quote]
       But if the finger was in an unnatural position - should VAR
       recommend an OFR for a penalty kick??  ;)
       #Post#: 70781--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Georgi Kabakov (Toulouse vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
       Date: November 10, 2023, 1:20 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Leggy link ---
       >
       > [quote author=TheThingFromLewes
       link=topic=5367.msg70779#msg70779 date=1699639158]
       > [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=5367.msg70776#msg70776
       date=1699632863]
       > Apologies, pressed the 'funny' icon by mistake on reply #2 and
       there appears to be no way to retract it.
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It’s quite a familiar thing for unintentional finger tapping on
       the emoticons on this site, and no way to remove said “error” if
       you’ve quit from the page and moved on. I’ve done it many a time
       unfortunately!
       [/quote]
       But if the finger was in an unnatural position - should VAR
       recommend an OFR for a penalty kick??  ;)
       [/quote]
       That all depends where said finger was in the first place!
       I’ll get my coat before I’m told off for being saucy.
       🫢🤭
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