DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
RateTheRef
HTML https://ratetheref.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: General Discussion
*****************************************************
#Post#: 69296--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: stig231
Date: October 9, 2023, 11:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Craven link ---
>
> So, a tackle that is worthy of a second yellow, isn’t given
because it’s a massive game between Arsenal and Man City and the
ref wants to keep 22 players on the pitch. But that same ref
could be doing Accrington Stanley v Sutton the next week, and
give a second yellow for exactly the same tackle because it’s
ONLY Accrington Stanley v Sutton. That’s basically what we’re
(Clattenburg and others) are saying here.
>
--- End Quote ---
Having seen numerous L1 and L2 games this season where there
have been 7 or 8+ etc yellow cards for what could be described
as games with hardly a bad tackle in them, yet the majority of
those YCs justified in keeping with the new directives, I am
absolutely convinced this is another example where a referee has
got the basics of protecting players within the Laws absolutely
wrong. Usually it is the National List newbies I have seen who
appear to be concentrating on the new time wasting/additional
injury time etc directives, at the expense of dangerous tackles
going unpunished, or at least punished inconsistently.
Back to Oliver in this particular game and I'm not fully
convinced the first tackle was a straight red, although had
Oliver produced a red I don't think VAR is then overturning it.
Looking at the possible second yellow another way, in that had
Oliver then shown a second yellow, I don't think there is anyone
out there (player, referee, fan, neutral, pundit) who would say
he shouldn't have.
#Post#: 69301--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: rustyref
Date: October 9, 2023, 11:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rory Stride link ---
>
> So people are letting Oliver and Bankes off for showing good
game management, yet the same people where praising Hooper for
sticking closely to the laws and showing no management at all.
>
--- End Quote ---
There's a huge difference. Whether a challenge is a caution or
a sending off is in the opinion of the referee, they see the
challenge and then they base the outcome based on the laws.
Changing a decision after play has restarted isn't in the
opinion of the referee, it is black and white wrong as law says
it must not happen.
#Post#: 69303--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: Rory Stride
Date: October 9, 2023, 11:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Rory Stride link=topic=5274.msg69293#msg69293
date=1696865947]
> So people are letting Oliver and Bankes off for showing good
game management, yet the same people where praising Hooper for
sticking closely to the laws and showing no management at all.
>
--- End Quote ---
There's a huge difference. Whether a challenge is a caution or
a sending off is in the opinion of the referee, they see the
challenge and then they base the outcome based on the laws.
Changing a decision after play has restarted isn't in the
opinion of the referee, it is black and white wrong as law says
it must not happen.
[/quote]
I am not on about the offside incident, I am talking about the
second yellow for Jota
#Post#: 69306--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
Date: October 9, 2023, 12:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Clattenburg would know all about “game management” after one of
the worst refereeing performances and abrogation of duty ever
seen in a top flight game when he has admitted allowing Spurs to
escape a minimum or 4 red cards in the game at Chelsea that
resulted in Leicester winning the league. His explanation was
that he did not want to send a Spurs player off so that it was
seen as the reason for costing them the league.
Walker, Dier, Dembele and Lamela all escaped obvious and
incontrovertible red cards and caused utter chaos at the end of
the game.
#Post#: 69307--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: Microscopist
Date: October 9, 2023, 12:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
From what I see the boundaries between sanctions, as applied,
are so broad as to be meaningless. If my thoughts on what
constitutes a dangerous challenge were applied then Kovacic
would have seen red for the first challenge. However, remember
I thought the the challenge on De Bruyne by Rudiger that
fractured his eye socket was also dangerous and that was
ridiculed on here. I also read on here that studs to ankle
challenges are generally thought of as yellow cards - so I
suppose the first challenge as yellow fits that descriptor. The
second challenge was similar though perhaps not quite so
forceful and I thought it should have been a second yellow and a
red.
Go back a week and the situation was mirrored in the Wolves v
City with Hee-Chan playing the part of Kovacic with a first
challenge that could well have been red and a second that in my
eyes should have been yellow. Flipmode reported this but
otherwise it produced no comment, even though it arguably had
more influence on the result as Hee-Chan scored the winner for
Wolves. Of course the City game wasn't shown live on TV and
could only be seen in full retrospectively on City+ tv. I long
ago gave up watching match of the day or its equivalents as I
find that the editing often gives a distorted view of games
where I watched the whole game and certain incidents are either
ignored or over emphasized depending on the whim of the
producers. So I don't know if the Hee-Chin decisions were given
as much prominence as the Kovacic ones, but I suspect not.
When I was an active microscopist I often got involved in
identifying "foreign bodies" in food, particularly in the late
80's when food scares were in vogue. I was often bemused as, to
me, relatively trivial incidents could be blown up in the media
whilst, to me, much more serious incidents were ignored. It
seems to me a general characteristic of the media - recently the
uncle of my son's fiancee was killed in a motor cycle accident
near Darvel. Apart from a police appeal for witnesses it was
difficult to find any report of it even in the local papers yet
I regularly see other fatal road accidents making headlines and
I can't fathom why the difference. Same with footballing
incidents, some are blown out of proportion whilst other similar
ones are given low key treatment.
#Post#: 69308--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: rustyref
Date: October 9, 2023, 12:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Rory Stride link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5274.msg69301#msg69301
date=1696868719]
> [quote author=Rory Stride link=topic=5274.msg69293#msg69293
date=1696865947]
> So people are letting Oliver and Bankes off for showing good
game management, yet the same people where praising Hooper for
sticking closely to the laws and showing no management at all.
>
--- End Quote ---
There's a huge difference. Whether a challenge is a caution or
a sending off is in the opinion of the referee, they see the
challenge and then they base the outcome based on the laws.
Changing a decision after play has restarted isn't in the
opinion of the referee, it is black and white wrong as law says
it must not happen.
[/quote]
I am not on about the offside incident, I am talking about the
second yellow for Jota
[/quote]
They are still vastly different. Jota's was stopping a
promising attack, there's no question of the foul on Rice being
SPA given where it happened on the pitch. So the only question
is was it careless or reckless.
#Post#: 69309--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: Rory Stride
Date: October 9, 2023, 12:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Rory Stride link=topic=5274.msg69303#msg69303
date=1696869336]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5274.msg69301#msg69301
date=1696868719]
> [quote author=Rory Stride link=topic=5274.msg69293#msg69293
date=1696865947]
> So people are letting Oliver and Bankes off for showing good
game management, yet the same people where praising Hooper for
sticking closely to the laws and showing no management at all.
>
--- End Quote ---
There's a huge difference. Whether a challenge is a caution or
a sending off is in the opinion of the referee, they see the
challenge and then they base the outcome based on the laws.
Changing a decision after play has restarted isn't in the
opinion of the referee, it is black and white wrong as law says
it must not happen.
[/quote]
Jota's is the same as the Peter Bankes one
I am not on about the offside incident, I am talking about the
second yellow for Jota
[/quote]
They are still vastly different. Jota's was stopping a
promising attack, there's no question of the foul on Rice being
SPA given where it happened on the pitch. So the only question
is was it careless or reckless.
[/quote]
#Post#: 69311--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: DBLTFC
Date: October 9, 2023, 1:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I copy this directly from social media:
“Letting himself down and someone needs to give him a kick up
the backside. Work rate not good enough. He is coasting. Should
not have been allowed to officiate in the Middle East on
Thursday with such a big game appointment.”
Sounds like any other fan comment, right? From bloody Keith
Hackett of all people. With friends like these who needs
enemies?
#Post#: 69312--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: October 9, 2023, 1:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hackett talks complete. . Now what's the word again ? Spherical
objects you kick and head on a football pitch to score a goal.
Ah yes ...
#Post#: 69319--------------------------------------------------
Re: M OLIVER - Arsenal v Man City
DIR By: Ref95
Date: October 9, 2023, 3:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Not sure why Brooks would face any repercussions, VAR cannot
intervene on a SYC and the foul on Rice was certainly not SFP.
Unusually poor from Oliver not to issue a SYC.
Also correct not to intervene on the yellow card given. The foul
could have been given as red or yellow on field, but too much
doubt to be overturned by VAR.
*****************************************************
Page 4 of 5
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page