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#Post#: 68299--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: stig231
Date: September 24, 2023, 9:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ARF link ---
>
> [quote author=stig231 link=topic=5223.msg68260#msg68260
date=1695509071]
> To be fair to Josh Smith, I can fully understand why the pen
was give in real time as the defender’s arm was up.
>
> The criticism here should solely be for the VAR as this is
exactly the type of incident VAR was bought in for and should
correct. It wasn’t even be a matter of opinion (where the oft
used ‘justifiable’ phrase from here could be used) this should
have been overturned as a fact of the laws of the game.
>
--- End Quote ---
Please quote which exact part of the Laws of the Game you are
basing this "fact" on?
[/quote]
Apologies, my mistake, I didn’t realise the deflection piece had
been removed from the laws.
#Post#: 68314--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: DBLTFC
Date: September 24, 2023, 11:25 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile recently retired members of the refereeing fraternity
are equally split: Mike Dean on Soccer Saturday saying he was
“astounded” it wasn’t overturned yet Chris Foy has said it’s a
penalty in his column this morning.
Who needs pundits when the referees themselves are equally
controversial with the laws
#Post#: 68321--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: bmb
Date: September 24, 2023, 12:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> [quote author=Seagull link=topic=5223.msg68276#msg68276
date=1695551814]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5223.msg68266#msg68266
date=1695510563]
> It was a clear penalty. Until a couple of years ago law said
that if the ball deflected off your body it wasn't handball, but
that was taken out. When the ball hit the defender's arm it was
almost vertically up in the air, that is a clear penalty under
the current laws.
>
--- End Quote ---
Having seen his TV interview after the match, perhaps somebody
could/should advise the Wolves Manager Gary O'Neill.
[/quote]
And the pundits on Match of the Day who appear to be equally
ignorant of the current guidelines, though that fact is about as
newsworthy as 'dog bites man'
[/quote]
Interesting exchange between Gary "I have excellent knowledge of
the LOTG" (stop sniggering at the back there...) Lineker and
Dale Johnson, who does actually have excellent knowledge of the
LOTG, on Twitter.
#Post#: 68322--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: bmb
Date: September 24, 2023, 12:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DBLTFC link ---
>
> The handball law is an absolute minefield - Ceferin made it
clear earlier this year that no one in the world understands it.
>
--- End Quote ---
Ceferin is wrong - Kyros Vassaras is the only person on the
planet with excellent understanding of the handball minefield.
He just needs to find a way to have Mr Vassaras at every single
ground for every single game everywhere to cast the ruling on
any handball call!
#Post#: 68337--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: Joecphillips
Date: September 24, 2023, 2:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Correct decision under current guidelines but that shouldn’t be
a penalty
#Post#: 68340--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: Original82
Date: September 24, 2023, 3:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
How many cautions were issued for running at the referee
following the award of the penalty?
#Post#: 68357--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: DBLTFC
Date: September 25, 2023, 1:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> [quote author=Whistleblower link=topic=5223.msg68278#msg68278
date=1695553142]
> [quote author=Seagull link=topic=5223.msg68276#msg68276
date=1695551814]
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=5223.msg68266#msg68266
date=1695510563]
> It was a clear penalty. Until a couple of years ago law said
that if the ball deflected off your body it wasn't handball, but
that was taken out. When the ball hit the defender's arm it was
almost vertically up in the air, that is a clear penalty under
the current laws.
>
--- End Quote ---
Having seen his TV interview after the match, perhaps somebody
could/should advise the Wolves Manager Gary O'Neill.
[/quote]
And the pundits on Match of the Day who appear to be equally
ignorant of the current guidelines, though that fact is about as
newsworthy as 'dog bites man'
[/quote]
Interesting exchange between Gary "I have excellent knowledge of
the LOTG" (stop sniggering at the back there...) Lineker and
Dale Johnson, who does actually have excellent knowledge of the
LOTG, on Twitter.
[/quote]
I’ve just seen this. Lineker saying that he’s completely correct
when he’s completely incorrect. The thing is that he’s actually
in a position to tell people the laws and their interpretations
and yet chooses to not refresh his memory and tell people what
is actually correct.
I say it again, what chance do John Brooks and Josh Smith have?
#Post#: 68417--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: Mr. Owens
Date: September 26, 2023, 6:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The reason handball is so difficult to understand is simply
because it has fundamentally and substantially changed every
year for the last 4 or 5 years. As of last year, an arm above
the head was always a handball except when a defender, who was
attempting to play the ball, deflects the ball into their arm,
even if the arm were stretched above the head. At the latest law
change, that was removed and now it is a handball offense when a
player "touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made
their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have
their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their
hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the
player's body movement for that specific situation. By having
their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of
their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalized."
If you ask me, in their attempts to clarify the situation, IFAB
have actually made the situation more and more difficult for
referees, players, technical staff, and audiences to understand
and have done a disservice to the game with regards to handball.
Still, they will claim that the key to understanding the
handball is the mythical "football understanding" which I'm
starting to believe is a "you either have it or you don't, and
if you have to ask then you don't have it" type of catch-all.
#Post#: 68423--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: nemesis
Date: September 26, 2023, 9:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mr. Owens link ---
>
> The reason handball is so difficult to understand is simply
because it has fundamentally and substantially changed every
year for the last 4 or 5 years. As of last year, an arm above
the head was always a handball except when a defender, who was
attempting to play the ball, deflects the ball into their arm,
even if the arm were stretched above the head. At the latest law
change, that was removed and now it is a handball offense when a
player "touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made
their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have
their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their
hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the
player's body movement for that specific situation. By having
their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of
their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalized."
>
> If you ask me, in their attempts to clarify the situation,
IFAB have actually made the situation more and more difficult
for referees, players, technical staff, and audiences to
understand and have done a disservice to the game with regards
to handball. Still, they will claim that the key to
understanding the handball is the mythical "football
understanding" which I'm starting to believe is a "you e?ither
have it or you don't, and if you have to ask then you don't have
it" type of catch-all.
>
--- End Quote ---
Does putting your arm up to appeal for offside count as natural
or unnatural ?
#Post#: 68424--------------------------------------------------
Re: Josh Smith: Luton v Wolves
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 26, 2023, 11:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: nemesis link ---
>
> [quote author=Mr. Owens link=topic=5223.msg68417#msg68417
date=1695727864]
> The reason handball is so difficult to understand is simply
because it has fundamentally and substantially changed every
year for the last 4 or 5 years. As of last year, an arm above
the head was always a handball except when a defender, who was
attempting to play the ball, deflects the ball into their arm,
even if the arm were stretched above the head. At the latest law
change, that was removed and now it is a handball offense when a
player "touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made
their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have
their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their
hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the
player's body movement for that specific situation. By having
their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of
their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalized."
>
> If you ask me, in their attempts to clarify the situation,
IFAB have actually made the situation more and more difficult
for referees, players, technical staff, and audiences to
understand and have done a disservice to the game with regards
to handball. Still, they will claim that the key to
understanding the handball is the mythical "football
understanding" which I'm starting to believe is a "you e?ither
have it or you don't, and if you have to ask then you don't have
it" type of catch-all.
>
--- End Quote ---
Does putting your arm up to appeal for offside count as natural
or unnatural ?
[/quote]
Does putting your arm up to ask to be excused and leave the room
count as a natural or unnatural break ?
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