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#Post#: 67605--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Leggy
Date: September 6, 2023, 11:17 am
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Before we rush to judgement on what the referees are saying to
the players (e.g. John Brooks to VVD), it would be helpful to
hear what is being said to them. I suspect that cannot be
shared in a programme such as this for a number of reasons, not
least the volume of "bleeping" it might entail.
During the VAR check, John Brooks reassured VVD that it was
being checked but reminded him that he would have to leave the
field immediately if the check confirmed the red card - this is
in accordance with Law and would prevent any further action for
either refusing to leave the field or for verbal misconduct.
Its a shame VVD was not listening.
#Post#: 67617--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Matt1234
Date: September 6, 2023, 6:03 pm
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I'm a bit confused. Who was the VAR for the Sheffield United v
Man City handball. Appointments say Simon Hooper but sounds like
Gillett said John will check it. I'm guessing he is referring to
John Brooks however that same day Brooks was reffing Newcastle v
liverpool
#Post#: 67618--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
Date: September 6, 2023, 8:31 pm
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I’m on holiday in Las Vegas at the moment so will have a gander
when I get back….
Unfortunately watching Sky Sports in the US is unavailable.
#Post#: 67619--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 6, 2023, 10:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Matt1234 link ---
>
> I'm a bit confused. Who was the VAR for the Sheffield United v
Man City handball. Appointments say Simon Hooper but sounds like
Gillett said John will check it. I'm guessing he is referring to
John Brooks however that same day Brooks was reffing Newcastle v
liverpool
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the VAR was Simon Hooper as you say.
I think Gillett says something like 'I'll talk to John' - I
think he is referring to the Sheffield United captain John Egan.
#Post#: 67623--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Craven
Date: September 7, 2023, 9:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=TheThingFromLewes
link=topic=5176.msg67618#msg67618 date=1694050280]
I’m on holiday in Las Vegas at the moment so will have a gander
when I get back….
Unfortunately watching Sky Sports in the US is
unavailable.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for letting us know, mate. Myself, and I’m sure many
others have been on tenterhooks waiting for your opinion. The
tension is unbearable. Please hurry back and put us out of our
misery 😜
#Post#: 67625--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 7, 2023, 10:47 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Craven link ---
>
> [quote author=TheThingFromLewes
link=topic=5176.msg67618#msg67618 date=1694050280]
> I’m on holiday in Las Vegas at the moment so will have a
gander when I get back….
>
> Unfortunately watching Sky Sports in the US is unavailable.
>
>
> Thanks for letting us know, mate. Myself, and I’m sure many
others have been on tenterhooks waiting for your opinion. The
tension is unbearable. Please hurry back and put us out of our
misery 😜
>
--- End Quote ---
Very little puts me on tenterhooks these days but I always
welcome the view of TheThingFromLewes on a variety of topics.
#Post#: 67626--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 7, 2023, 10:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Enjoy Las Vegas TTFL. I went once and it's just about the very
last palace to which I would ever wish to return. Thank goodness
we're all different in our likes and dislikes.
#Post#: 67627--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 7, 2023, 11:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Meant to write place. Clearly Caesar's Palace has had a powerful
and subliminal effect in me !
#Post#: 67643--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: DublinRef
Date: September 8, 2023, 11:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I thought it was a very interesting segment. While Howard Webb
speaks very well and I personally think very genuinely,
sometimes it is hard to explain what can just be a really poor
error in judgement. Where he could talk through the process I
felt he gave excellent analysis of where a thought process may
have gone array.
In terms of the on field officials I thought there were a number
of interesting points. While time in the game, score line,
tensions etc. will of course vary, I felt some officials had
more respect from players than others. It struck me that Anthony
Taylor, Michael Oliver and Craig Pawson clearly had players
respect and were extremely calm and comfortable on the pitch.
They all had slightly different styles (Pawson was particularly
laid back, Taylor more energetic) but all three, in my view at
least, seemed very much at ease dealing with both VAR and
players.
The next question is a little bit of a chicken and egg.
Was Anthony Taylor less 'shouty' and aggresive than John Brooks
because he got less dissent for his decision (which was wrong)
or did he get less dissent because of his calm authoritative
manner. Difficult to tell. I do wonder if the fact Taylor,
Oliver and Pawson all have at least a decade now in the Premier
league means players are more familiar with them and afford them
a little more deference. I think a number of things are at play
and it is a combination of effects but personally, I do think
players might, to some degree, feel they have more chance of
rattling newer referees. Or at least have less respect for and
rapport with them.
Saying all this, while Mr. Brooks may not have been ideal in his
communication, given the lack of respect from Liverpool players,
I don't particularly think his shouting at Van Dijk "Go, go now"
was overly inappropriate. I think perhaps issuing sanctions to
other players who surrounded him could have helped.
In all likelihood though, I am over analyzing. Mr. Brooks got
the call right and sometimes, referees can't always and should
not always present a non aggressive image. I can think of
incidents, earlier in their career where all three, Taylor
Oliver and Pawson looked uncomposed and rattled on the pitch.
Comes with time imagine.
A final thought - I think the general reaction has been a little
disappointing from what I have seen. It is so hard to gauge the
opinion of the 'average' fan from what one reads online but to
the small extent you can, it hasn't been overly receptive.
#Post#: 67644--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Leggy
Date: September 8, 2023, 12:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: DublinRef link ---
>
> I thought it was a very interesting segment. While Howard Webb
speaks very well and I personally think very genuinely,
sometimes it is hard to explain what can just be a really poor
error in judgement. Where he could talk through the process I
felt he gave excellent analysis of where a thought process may
have gone array.
>
> In terms of the on field officials I thought there were a
number of interesting points. While time in the game, score
line, tensions etc. will of course vary, I felt some officials
had more respect from players than others. It struck me that
Anthony Taylor, Michael Oliver and Craig Pawson clearly had
players respect and were extremely calm and comfortable on the
pitch. They all had slightly different styles (Pawson was
particularly laid back, Taylor more energetic) but all three, in
my view at least, seemed very much at ease dealing with both VAR
and players.
>
> The next question is a little bit of a chicken and egg.
>
> Was Anthony Taylor less 'shouty' and aggresive than John
Brooks because he got less dissent for his decision (which was
wrong) or did he get less dissent because of his calm
authoritative manner. Difficult to tell. I do wonder if the fact
Taylor, Oliver and Pawson all have at least a decade now in the
Premier league means players are more familiar with them and
afford them a little more deference. I think a number of things
are at play and it is a combination of effects but personally, I
do think players might, to some degree, feel they have more
chance of rattling newer referees. Or at least have less respect
for and rapport with them.
>
> Saying all this, while Mr. Brooks may not have been ideal in
his communication, given the lack of respect from Liverpool
players, I don't particularly think his shouting at Van Dijk
"Go, go now" was overly inappropriate. I think perhaps issuing
sanctions to other players who surrounded him could have helped.
>
> In all likelihood though, I am over analyzing. Mr. Brooks got
the call right and sometimes, referees can't always and should
not always present a non aggressive image. I can think of
incidents, earlier in their career where all three, Taylor
Oliver and Pawson looked uncomposed and rattled on the pitch.
Comes with time imagine.
>
> A final thought - I think the general reaction has been a
little disappointing from what I have seen. It is so hard to
gauge the opinion of the 'average' fan from what one reads
online but to the small extent you can, it hasn't been overly
receptive.
>
--- End Quote ---
You are 100% correct that players will try to "rattle" a newer
referee. Whether that is John Brooks in the Premier League or a
youngster on the parks. The players will try it on with the
"greenhorn" while saving their energy with a grizzled old ref
that they know of old.
As a coda to the VVD incident, the player has had a extra game
added to his ban and been relieved of £100km while the referee
has just been appointed to a Euro 2024 qualifier involving
Portugal. I think that shows who was in the right and who was
not.
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