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#Post#: 67588--------------------------------------------------
Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: magpie1892
Date: September 5, 2023, 1:31 pm
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Howard Webb is going through the first three rounds VAR audio at
8pm tonight on Sky Sports.
Believe this was originally scheduled for tomorrow according to
Dale Johnson from ESPN
#Post#: 67590--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: magpie1892
Date: September 5, 2023, 2:14 pm
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1. Monday 14th August - Man Utd v Wolves (Ref Hooper, VAR
Salisbury)
Onana foul
Webb - VAR should have recommended review, VAR looked like they
were going to ask for a review and possibly "overthinks it" and
decides against a review as maybe felt not clear & obvious.
Incorrect decision
2. Sunday 27th August - Newcastle v Liverpool - (Ref Brooks, VAR
Attwell)
Foul VVD on Isak
Correct decision
#Post#: 67592--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: magpie1892
Date: September 5, 2023, 2:28 pm
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3. Sunday 27th August - Sheff Utd v Man City (Ref Gillet, VAR
Brooks)
Handball & penalty by Egan (left the room briefly)
Correct decision.
4. 2nd September - Man City v Fulham (Ref Oliver, VAR
Harrington)
Potential offside by Akanji
Webb - should have been disallowed, defender was in line of
sight of goalkeeper.
Wrong decision
5. 3rd September - Arsenal v Man Utd (Ref Taylor, VAR Gillet)
Penalty, foul by Wan-Bisaka on Haverz overruled by VAR
Correct decision
6. Friday 11th August - Burnley v Man City (Ref, Pawson, VAR
Oliver)
Red card for SFP
Correct decision
#Post#: 67593--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: tef
Date: September 5, 2023, 2:32 pm
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Enjoyed that a lot and I look forward to future episodes. A nice
spread of incidents (both correct and incorrect) but one obvious
incident missing is the McAllister red card at Liverpool.
#Post#: 67594--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: robbie_scouse
Date: September 5, 2023, 3:04 pm
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Pleasantly surprised that they included 2 of the 3 decisions
they got wrong but therefore disappointed they didn’t include
the other (MacAllister Red Card).
Good to include footage in the build up to incidents to
demonstrate how intense a match is for officials. Not sure if
the audio was edited but if not it comes across as quite
confusing with too many speaking at once which must be difficult
for the on-field referee.
Thought the best example was the overturning of Arsenal’s
penalty award on Sunday.
Would have liked Michael Owen to have asked Howard Webb if he
thought any of the “supported” decisions would have been
overturned if they’d been given the other way - the Van Dijk
one, for example (correct decision for me).
One other observation, not a single official was mentioned by
name by either Owen or Webb but players were. Not sure why when
the identity of the officials can easily be researched.
Despite a few faults, I’d say that overall this is a positive
development.
#Post#: 67597--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Craven
Date: September 5, 2023, 4:45 pm
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Good show, and fair play to Howard Webb for sanctioning it. Felt
it was all a tad rushed and shoehorned into a 30 minute segment
when it could easily run for an hour at least, and possibly have
a couple of referees on each show to chat about things. If
anything it would humanise them and show the general public that
they’re just normal guys doing their best.
As a Fulham fan I was obviously very interested in the Man City
offside. After listening to it, my observations are that
Harrington as VAR was very weak and happily let his AVAR lead
the way and have the final say. He sounded a tad out of his
depth, was happy to pass the buck, and the whole decision seemed
to get wrapped up too quickly.
#Post#: 67598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: tef
Date: September 5, 2023, 5:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Craven link ---
>
> As a Fulham fan I was obviously very interested in the Man
City offside. After listening to it, my observations are that
Harrington as VAR was very weak and happily let his AVAR lead
the way and have the final say. He sounded a tad out of his
depth, was happy to pass the buck, and the whole decision seemed
to get wrapped up too quickly.
>
--- End Quote ---
Yes, I felt the same. He was working with a UEFA official (Adam
Nunn) so quite possibly a case of leaning heavily on Nunn’s
greater experience.
I know FIFA have dedicated offside VARs as part of their
enormous matchday team, but presumably offsides don’t form part
of AVAR’s remit over here and it’s still the main VAR who should
take the lead?
#Post#: 67599--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Rory Stride
Date: September 5, 2023, 6:13 pm
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Very good.
My Opinions:
Man United vs Wolves: Can see why Hooper thinks it’s just a
collision. Salisbury is going down the right lines then seems to
overthink it and come out with the wring error.
Newcastle vs Liverpool: Right decision reached but the whole
seems very hectic. Brooks seems very chaotic and is almost
shouting. The way he communicates the check is over the Van Dijk
is dreadful. He shouts at him, “go, get off, get off now!” It
doesn’t come across well really
Sheffield vs Man City: Good correct call
Man City vs Fulham- Harrington seemed to have the right idea,
then seemed to go with the AVAR Adam Nunn (A UEFA ELITE AR) who
got it all wrong, shockingly. Harrington delegated too much
responsibility. Perhaps as an inexperienced premier league
referee he felt slightly pressured with an Elite Referee and Two
Elite ARS all calling a goal.
Arsenal vs Man United- Good use of VAR. Nice and clear reasoning
by both Gillett and Taylor at the monitor. Good reminder from
AVAR Simon Bennett to remind Gillett about checking APP
Burnley vs Man City- Excellent use of VAR, well described and
clear process followed
One thing this highlighted for me was how different referees
come across. Taylor, Pawson and Oliver as well as Attwell and
Gillett in VAR come across very well, with nice clear thought
processes. Other referees like Hooper and Brooks it was all a
bit frantic, to quote Hooper “Go Away you’re on a caution”. This
is one thing that will certainly affect player behaviour. You
don’t see Oliver crowded round on a regular basis. One thing I
find interesting is Paul Tierney hasn’t featured at all in any
of these releases, especially as a referee who doesn’t look like
he across particularly well to players.
#Post#: 67600--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: September 5, 2023, 9:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: robbie_scouse link ---
>
> Pleasantly surprised that they included 2 of the 3 decisions
they got wrong but therefore disappointed they didn’t include
the other (MacAllister Red Card).
>
> Good to include footage in the build up to incidents to
demonstrate how intense a match is for officials. Not sure if
the audio was edited but if not it comes across as quite
confusing with too many speaking at once which must be difficult
for the on-field referee.
>
> Thought the best example was the overturning of Arsenal’s
penalty award on Sunday.
>
> Would have liked Michael Owen to have asked Howard Webb if he
thought any of the “supported” decisions would have been
overturned if they’d been given the other way - the Van Dijk
one, for example (correct decision for me).
>
> One other observation, not a single official was mentioned by
name by either Owen or Webb but players were. Not sure why when
the identity of the officials can easily be researched.
>
> Despite a few faults, I’d say that overall this is a positive
development.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think we got the full audio from both the on-field and VAR
teams at the same time. I don't think the referee would hear all
of that. They'd only hear the VAR part when the VAR was directly
communicating with them (.e.g they wouldn't hear Salsbury say he
thought the challenge was clumsy but would hear him say 'Check
complete'.)
I thought that it was an informative show and I agree it could
have been extended beyond 30 minutes. I thought Taylor and
Oliver came across as particularly good communicators on the
pitch.
I hadn't realised there was such an experience assistant as AVAR
for the Man City V Fulham game. I wouldn't be surprised if it's
reasonably common for the AVAR to have a large amount of input
in an offside decision.
It felt with the Man Utd V Wolves incident that it was a case of
the bar for clear and obvious being too high. Salsbury seemed to
be describing a foul. I know you can't refer everything but I
think it would be best in such instances for an on-field review
to happen and if the referee is happy with their original
decision then they can stay with it. Having a very high bar
requires excellent judgement from the VARs as to when to come
in. I think better perhaps to put more emphasis on allowing a
referee to stick with their decision where relevant at the
monitor.
Is it normal for the whole APP to be checked before an on-field
review? Perhaps a surprising initial oversight from Gillett if
so.
#Post#: 67602--------------------------------------------------
Re: Howard Webb VAR Review - Sky Sports 8pm
DIR By: UmpireIan49
Date: September 6, 2023, 3:53 am
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I’ve been watching some of the incidents with audio and it is
really intriguing listening to the thought processes of the
officials when making a decision.
Some observations……I like the fact that there are protocols to
be followed (as in rugby and cricket) but you’ve still got
problems when indecision creeps in. Being a cricket umpire
myself, players respect officials who are decisive. When
indecision creeps in, problems arise.
Definitely the case with Simon Hooper/Michael Salisbury over the
non award of a penalty at Old Trafford. Salisbury talked himself
out of recommending a review and even convinced himself that it
wasn’t a penalty. Very messy and of course the wrong decision
was made.
John Brooks and Stuart Attwell worked well together, Brooks
asking his colleague to confirm the original decision of a red
card. Quick and decisive from all concerned, though Brooks
shouting wasn’t the best thing to hear.
Jarred Gillett, excellent penalty award at Sheffield United
(quick, clear decision, which is Gillett’s hallmark). And fine
teamwork between him and Anthony Taylor over the penalty award
at Arsenal. Protocols followed correctly and this should be a
template for the others to follow.
Live communication won’t happen for a while so we have to wait
until the matches have been played before we hear what went on.
Some of the more inexperienced referees lack confidence to make
a decisive call, other more experienced officials remain calm
and make the right call. After all, that’s what we all want
isn’t it? The right decision being made and the process being
straightforward rather than the mess we saw at Old Trafford.
Kudos to Howard Webb for explaining what goes on and to get more
accountability for his charges. As always, the better referees
get the better games, the not so good ones don’t. It’s as simple
as that.
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