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#Post#: 67086--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: BabyRef
Date: August 25, 2023, 5:43 am
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Mike Dean is one of my favourite referees of all time but I have
absolutely no idea what possessed him to say that.
#Post#: 67087--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: Failed Ref
Date: August 25, 2023, 6:28 am
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I was initially surprised but there is an honesty there which I
admire. Yes you can take his comments a number of ways but it
shows human fallibility and gives a deeper insight into the VAR
role. VAR has been embarrassing at times, maybe other VAR
officials have struggled to make crucial decisions because of
their relationship with officials. I think this is less likely
now not that it will stop cynical observers of the game.
I quit refereeing because I was useless and I found criticism
hard to take. I was my own worst critic too. I started to dread
weekends and that is a bad starting point when your confidence
and self belief is low, your thinking is muddled. I can relate
to Mike Dean and sympathise.
#Post#: 67089--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: aaa
Date: August 25, 2023, 6:58 am
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I, like few people were surprised that he took up VAR role in
the first place because he said (during one of his talks towards
the end of his active refereeing years - around 3 or 4 years
ago) that he dislike VAR. In short he said "Not for me".
#Post#: 67091--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: doowe
Date: August 25, 2023, 7:26 am
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I am probably in a minority here but I have respect for Mike
Dean’s honesty. I don’t believe he has intended to embarrass
Anthony Taylor in any way, I would rather conclude that the
incident is something that has preyed on his mind, and he just
wanted to admit his own failings and culpability. I welcome his
openness and wish there was much more of it
#Post#: 67095--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: Scally Bob
Date: August 25, 2023, 10:06 am
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I wonder what assessment of Mike Dean was made to be confident
that the VAR role is one he is suited to? The same applies to
other referees as well.
Being a VAR is effectively a management position because you are
overseeing and attempting to correct mistakes you perceive
others have made. That those others are usually your peers (not
with Dean who had hung up the whistle) makes it more
challenging. Then add the dynamic of more senior officials’
decisions being reviewed by newer referees and it’s not
straightforward. Some people would not be happy in that
environment.
It seems all SG1 referees immediately do a joint active/VAR role
but as everyone knows good players don’t always make good
managers and I suspect it’s the same with referees and VAR’s. It
shouldn’t be assumed that a referee will automatically be a good
VAR.
That said, Mike Dean’s comments appear clumsy and unnecessary
and will just add to the conspiracy theories that I hear
non-stop from all angles.
#Post#: 67096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: nemesis
Date: August 25, 2023, 10:42 am
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--- Quote from: Scally Bob link ---
>
> I wonder what assessment of Mike Dean was made to be confident
that the VAR role is one he is suited to? The same applies to
other referees as well.
>
> Being a VAR is effectively a management position because you
are overseeing and attempting to correct mistakes you perceive
others have made. That those others are usually your peers (not
with Dean who had hung up the whistle) makes it more
challenging. Then add the dynamic of more senior officials’
decisions being reviewed by newer referees and it’s not
straightforward. Some people would not be happy in that
environment.
>
> It seems all SG1 referees immediately do a joint active/VAR
role but as everyone knows good players don’t always make good
managers and I suspect it’s the same with referees and VAR’s. It
shouldn’t be assumed that a referee will automatically be a good
VAR.
>
> That said, Mike Dean’s comments appear clumsy and unnecessary
and will just add to the conspiracy theories that I hear
non-stop from all angles.
>
--- End Quote ---
If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times.
Whilst the SG1 referees, with few exceptions, are undoubtedly
the best people with the experience, fitness and man-management
skills to referee our football matches, the chances of the same
people also being the best at the entirely different role of VAR
(requiring no fitness and man-management specialisms and
therefore able to be drawn as the best from an exponentially
bigger pool) are infinitesimally small.
#Post#: 67106--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: August 25, 2023, 5:20 pm
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--- Quote from: Carter link ---
>
>
> "Former Premier League official Mike Dean has admitted that he
refused to intervene on one of last season’s biggest VAR
controversies because the on-pitch referee ‘was a mate’.
>
> The 55-year-old, who spent 22 years refereeing in the top
flight, became a dedicated VAR official last season after
hanging up his whistle but made a high-profile gaffe in just the
second matchday of the season.
>
> Dean was on VAR duty for Tottenham’s visit to Chelsea on 16
August 2022, with Anthony Taylor the on-field referee, and both
managed to miss Cristian Romero’s clear hair pull on Marc
Cucurella in the final moments of the game.
>
> The Argentine centre-back should have been shown a red card
but instead Dean chose not to intervene, with Spurs equalising
from the subsequent corner, and he was stood down from duty for
the following gameweek.
>
> Dean, who has left his role with PGMOL and is part of Sky
Sports’ Soccer Saturday programme, has now revealed that it was
a conscious decision not to send Taylor to the monitor because
he did not want to create any more ‘grief’ for his friend.
>
> Speaking on the Up Front podcast with Simon Jordan, Dean – who
regrets his decision – explained: ‘I missed the stupid hair pull
at Chelsea versus Tottenham which was pathetic from my point of
view.
>
> ‘It’s one of them where if I had my time again, what would I
do? I’d send Anthony [Taylor] to the screen. I think I knew if I
did send him to the screen … he’s cautioned both managers, he’s
had a hell of a game, it’s been such a tough game end to end.
>
--- End Quote ---
Is he saying:
1. They both missed it in real time (fair enough). Dean missed
it on VAR review (ok mistakes happen as with the lines drawn on
the Arsenal v Brentford offside goal or sometimes VAR is looking
at one specific part of a phase and mistakenly does not look at
all elements); or
2. They both missed it in real time. Dean saw it on VAR review
and did not advise a review (which could be ok if Dean did not
consider the hair pull to be SFP but he has not mentioned that
in his comments)?
Why would he not want to advise a review especially if the OFR
had not seen the incident? At that stage the equalising goal
hadn't been scored so what was the downside as the Spurs manger
could hardly complain once the incident was shown?
#Post#: 67108--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: Marvin Grapevine
Date: August 26, 2023, 2:51 am
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I'm a bit surprised to see a lot of comments here (and in other
places) stating that he should not have made these comments and
that he's thrown ex-colleagues under the bus.
Surely the more concerning aspect here is the fact that -
unsurprisingly - referees are influenced by their friendships
and professional camaraderie with their colleagues, and -
whether consciously or otherwise - let this impinge on their
decision making process?
I don't think many are surprised that he has said the quiet part
out loud, but again it calls into question the whole point of
VAR when all we're doing is adding another layer of subjectivity
to an already subjective process and we now have an admission
that they will be influenced by outside factors.
With regards to the game and decision itself, it was a disaster
on every level. The failure to award the red card cost Chelsea
two points. Romero could not even be retrospectively punished
because the officials had "dealt" with the matter, meaning he
was able to play in 3 games he should not have been able to.
#Post#: 67110--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: Rory Stride
Date: August 26, 2023, 3:04 am
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--- Quote from: Marvin Grapevine link ---
>
>
> With regards to the game and decision itself, it was a
disaster on every level. The failure to award the red card cost
Chelsea two points. Romero could not even be retrospectively
punished because the officials had "dealt" with the matter,
meaning he was able to play in 3 games he should not have been
able to.
>
--- End Quote ---
I think it’s time that retrospective punishment can be handed
out after the event, regardless of the incident being wrongly
dealt with on field.
#Post#: 67115--------------------------------------------------
Re: Mike Dean VAR Comments
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: August 26, 2023, 3:51 am
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I saw it mentioned elsewhere that someone was surprised at how
informal some of the conversations were between the VAR and
referee when Webb released the audio at the end of last season
with various nicknames used (Tayls, Kav, Ledge etc.) I wonder if
it might be sensible to move away from this a bit in view of
this story, especially if more audio is to be made public?
The reaction does also make you suspect that referees aren't
going to be doing post-match interviews any time soon. I think
it's unlikely Dean would have said something like this if he was
still active but one comment can create a lot of headlines.
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