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#Post#: 66210--------------------------------------------------
England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: Leggy
Date: August 7, 2023, 12:01 pm
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England vs Nigeria - Match 54
Referee: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
Assistant referee: Shirley Perello (Honduras)
Assistant referee: Sandra Ramirez (Mexico)
Fourth official: Emikar Calderas Barrera (Venezuela)
Reserve assistant referee: Migdalia Rodríguez Chirino
(Venezuela)
Video assistant referee: Armando Villarreal (United States)
Assistant video assistant referee: Drew Fischer (Canada)
Offside video assistant referee: Felisha Mariscal (United
States)
I have just watched the BBC highlights from this game as it was
at an inconvenient time for those needing to work and not having
access to a TV!
The penalty to England that was over-turned is an odd one. Is
the VAR saying to the referee that it was "too soft", or the
England player went down too easily? Had it not been given, I
am sure that nothing would have been said - but for the VAR to
intervene is quite a big call.
The other "talking point" is the sending off of the England
player. First thing to say is that the correct outcome was
(eventually) reached. I am concerned, however, on Melissa
Borjas' thought processes. As she blew and cautioned the
England player; to my mind she can only have:
~ Not seen it clearly, reacted and - to some extent - "guessed".
~ Seen it clearly and issued the wrong sanction.
Either way it is quite a significant error.
I'd welcome thoughts on both incidents from those who saw the
match in full.
#Post#: 66214--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: PDMat Shav
Date: August 7, 2023, 1:07 pm
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The Nigeria player was holding the England player from the edge
of the penalty area and gave her a push in the penalty area to
which she went down with the referee was well placed to see the
incident and instantly pointed and awarded a penalty kick.
Then VAR intervened and recommended the referee go to the
monitor and review it, which she did and changed here decision.
With regards the sending off which was correct she had issued
the yellow card and i don't think she actually saw it. I think
Lucy Bronze was lucky not to be penalised in the penalty area
late in the game when she charged into the back of her opponent,
perhaps VAR wasn't brave enough to bring it to the referee's
attention?
To be fair overall i thought she had a good game
#Post#: 66221--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: ajb95
Date: August 7, 2023, 2:56 pm
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Red card she should have seen especially having seen it in real
time. Not a penalty for me, but there is contact so for me VAR
shouldn’t have intervened
#Post#: 66234--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: RefObserver
Date: August 8, 2023, 2:23 am
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As above really. I'm surprised the red card incident wasn't seen
live but definitely a correct decision.
The penalty was an odd one. My initial reaction was one of
surprise when given. There is no way that the nudge would cause
someone to fall forwards so much they subsequently do a forward
somersault!
As such, I do not feel that it was worthy of a penalty.
That said, I feel it is subjective and was again surprised when
it was overturned on review as there is contact so is it a clear
and obvious error but think the unnatural fall of the forward
contributed.
My gut though is that ultimately the right outcome was achieved,
I'm just not sure if the use of VAR was within it's remit rather
than re-refereeing the incident.
I'm sure however that were it the other end and against England
we'd all be lauding the excellent use of VAR!
#Post#: 66244--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: MCPridz
Date: August 8, 2023, 5:38 am
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Didn’t see the penalty for England, so can’t comment on that,
but on the red card as I am not allowed to criticise referees,
because I just get out on moderated posts, I will say this yes
the correct decision was made and I knew it was a red as soon as
play had stopped and was walking but in my view I think James’
frustrations got the better of her she was marked out the game
and then the foul on her which led to the red card wasn’t given
she got frustrated and then the stamp happened had the referee
give the free kick in her favour then she wouldn’t of been sent
off just my take on it anyway
#Post#: 66245--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: Hertsref123
Date: August 8, 2023, 5:43 am
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--- Quote from: MCPridz link ---
>
> Didn’t see the penalty for England, so can’t comment on that,
but on the red card as I am not allowed to criticise referees,
because I just get out on moderated posts, I will say this yes
the correct decision was made and I knew it was a red as soon as
play had stopped and was walking but in my view I think James’
frustrations got the better of her she was marked out the game
and then the foul on her which led to the red card wasn’t given
she got frustrated and then the stamp happened had the referee
give the free kick in her favour then she wouldn’t of been sent
off just my take on it anyway
>
--- End Quote ---
You can criticise referees without calling them biased. Then you
might not end up with modded posts. Just saying.
🤷‍♂️
#Post#: 66250--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: August 8, 2023, 7:24 am
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It was a red card all day long and I'm surprised it wasn't
recognised as such immediately.
It's one thing to mistime a tackle or bring an attacker down to
stop them scoring but this was frankly rather daft and
inexcusable. I guess Lauren James had been on the end of some
verbal or physical provocation but professionalism dictates that
you have to rise above such things and not allow the provocation
to have its desired result. Hopefully she will be a wiser and
more mature player by learning from this episode.
#Post#: 66253--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: bmb
Date: August 8, 2023, 9:28 am
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--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> It was a red card all day long and I'm surprised it wasn't
recognised as such immediately.
>
--- End Quote ---
A lot depends on how/where you are looking. You might be
looking right at an incident but if you are looking more upwards
you will see the head/body but not necessarily the feet, if you
are looking slightly more downwards then you will see the
position of the feet but not the head. You can see a push at
body level without seeing any follow up with what the feet are
then doing. It's why we are/were all taught about giving
yourself as wide an angle view as possible - more chance of also
seeing the whole body because that wider angle also gives you a
taller angle. Even the slightest tilt of your head can give a
very different view. Additionally though feet are often also the
most obscured in terms of viewing. Don't know if that was
relevant in this case but certainly is in generally speaking
terms.
#Post#: 66254--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: August 8, 2023, 11:35 am
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You make very good points bmb. What I have always found slightly
problematic is when a caution is given when it is clearly a
dismissal offence. The referee has obviously seen an incident
otherwise she would not caution but she hasn't interpreted what
she has seen correctly. I can quite understand a referee missing
an incident because of the angle of looking or a player in the
line of vision but I am less tolerant of a viewing with a
mistaken interpretation.
#Post#: 66256--------------------------------------------------
Re: England vs Nigeria: Melissa Borjas (Honduras)
DIR By: RCG
Date: August 8, 2023, 12:18 pm
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To me it's a prime example of when a referee should be allowed
to view incident again without first having to make a decision
"I know something has happened but have not seen it clearly"
In the good ol' days a referee once asked a player "why did you
hit him?" "He deserved it" Dismissal
Referee after admitted he knew something had happened but didn't
see it. At least now we have VAR 😉
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