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#Post#: 65876--------------------------------------------------
Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: Ted Best 2
Date: July 28, 2023, 9:10 am
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Back in my days of playing Sunday League football, I remember
occasionally a referee would caution a player during a match but
then didn’t appear to report this to the local league or county
FA, as no subsequent communication was received by the club. I
presume either the referee didn’t want to deal with the
resultant paperwork or had only cautioned the player in the
context of controlling the game. I realise this is at a very low
level of the game, but is it something that would be seen at a
much higher level? The reason for asking is that during my
research of European competition matches, I have come across a
number of newspaper reports that indicate a player had been
cautioned, but this then doesn’t appear in UEFA.com’s records.
Of course, this could just be an error or omission on UEFA’s
website recording of the match, but could it be that the referee
didn’t subsequently include the caution in their referee’s
report?
#Post#: 65878--------------------------------------------------
Re: Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: aaa
Date: July 28, 2023, 10:44 am
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--- Quote from: Ted Best 2 link ---
>
> Back in my days of playing Sunday League football, I remember
occasionally a referee would caution a player during a match but
then didn’t appear to report this to the local league or county
FA, as no subsequent communication was received by the club. I
presume either the referee didn’t want to deal with the
resultant paperwork or had only cautioned the player in the
context of controlling the game. I realise this is at a very low
level of the game, but is it something that would be seen at a
much higher level? The reason for asking is that during my
research of European competition matches, I have come across a
number of newspaper reports that indicate a player had been
cautioned, but this then doesn’t appear in UEFA.com’s records.
Of course, this could just be an error or omission on UEFA’s
website recording of the match, but could it be that the referee
didn’t subsequently include the caution in their referee’s
report?
>
--- End Quote ---
In England, any Referee that operate on Step 6 (Level 4 Referee)
and above that "failed" to report all disciplinary at
appropriate timing will find themself in trouble with definite
suspension. Step 6/Level 4 Referee and above are
"controlled/managed" by the FA. Anything below can get away
with things without no one noticing.
#Post#: 65879--------------------------------------------------
Re: Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: bmb
Date: July 28, 2023, 12:05 pm
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--- Quote from: Ted Best 2 link ---
>
> Back in my days of playing Sunday League football, I remember
occasionally a referee would caution a player during a match but
then didn’t appear to report this to the local league or county
FA, as no subsequent communication was received by the club. I
presume either the referee didn’t want to deal with the
resultant paperwork or had only cautioned the player in the
context of controlling the game. I realise this is at a very low
level of the game, but is it something that would be seen at a
much higher level? The reason for asking is that during my
research of European competition matches, I have come across a
number of newspaper reports that indicate a player had been
cautioned, but this then doesn’t appear in UEFA.com’s records.
Of course, this could just be an error or omission on UEFA’s
website recording of the match, but could it be that the referee
didn’t subsequently include the caution in their referee’s
report?
>
--- End Quote ---
I'd take the UEFA record as the correct one rather than what is
written in the papers. I have been observing a match, made note
obviously of cautions, amongst other things and my notes have
tallied with the referee's record and the FA record but the
papers report has listed completely different stats - wrong
number of cards, wrong recipient of cards etc. so I'd take
anything you read in the sports pages with a pinch of salt and
go by what the relevant FA site has listed.
#Post#: 65889--------------------------------------------------
Re: Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: Ted Best 2
Date: July 28, 2023, 4:22 pm
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Thank you for the replies. I do normally go with the official
version and just make a note of an erroneously recorded
reference from any other sources e.g. newspaper or magazine.
However, the following case is interesting:
Liverpool v AS Roma – UEFA Cup 2000-01
The full match can be seen here:
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp8VO-WIorA
If you fast forward to minute 76’ 30” (of the game) the Spanish
referee, José Garcia-Aranda Encinar appears to award Roma a
penalty, then changes his decision and awards a corner kick. The
Roma players surround the referee and he appears to issue three
or four yellow cards (to Guigou, Zago(?), Samuel and Tomassi)?
Further into the match at 84’ 40” Tomassi receives a yellow
card, this being his second, and is sent off. I am not aware he
was booked at any previous time in the match other than the
incident in the 76th minute.
Then, at 92’ 20” Guigou is yellow carded, but not sent-off, so I
assume he can’t have been one of those booked in 76th minute
incident.
On referring to UEFA’s official records
HTML https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/match/66909--liverpool-vs-roma/<br
/> the only player noted to have received a yellow card in the
76th minute incident is Samuel.
Tomassi’s sending off in the 84th minute is shown as a yellow
and a red card, indicating a previous yellow at some point, but
this isn’t shown at any earlier time. Presumably, this is from
the 76th minute incident and an error on the UEFA record.
Guigou is noted as a yellow and a red card in the 90th minute
but the video evidence clearly shows he wasn’t sent off. I’ve
not found any record of any retrospective punishment/suspension.
Therefore, I assume the UEFA record is incorrect and should just
be a yellow card in the 90th minute.
So, all a bit confusing and back to my original question. If the
referee brandished three or four yellow cards in the 76th minute
why didn't he report these or if did it is just a case of bad
record keeping on UEFA.com's part?
Incidentally, the match appears to have been José Garcia-Aranda
Encinar’s last European competition appointment, but whether
this was related to his handling of the game or just because it
was his last season I do not know.
HTML https://www.bdfutbol.com/en/r/r600041.html
If anyone has any thoughts or additional information, please let
me know.
#Post#: 65892--------------------------------------------------
Re: Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: Beacon
Date: July 28, 2023, 11:29 pm
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Retirement - he was 45
#Post#: 65895--------------------------------------------------
Re: Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: ajb95
Date: July 29, 2023, 5:36 am
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Shocking refereeing. No sympathy there as he caused the raucous
by giving a penalty then changing his mind for no possible
reason. Should be at least 2 red cards for manhandling the
referee
#Post#: 65897--------------------------------------------------
Re: Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: Ted Best 2
Date: July 29, 2023, 9:20 am
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AS Roma lodged a protest against the referee’s decision, which
was rejected by UEFA
HTML https://www.uefa.com/newsfiles/3718.pdf
Assuming a match at UEFA level would have had the same
principles as in England, i.e. that failure to report all
disciplinary actions at appropriate timing would find a referee
in trouble with a definite suspension, and that flashing around
three or four yellow cards in the direction of the Roma players
couldn't be used as just a means of controlling the game at the
time, then I have to deduce that the website data is incomplete
and inaccurate. However, in my opinion, this doesn’t explain the
apparent Guigou yellow card.
Does anyone have any evidence that UEFA might have turned a
blind eye to a referee’s blunder? In this case, given the
referee’s impending retirement, what good would a suspension
have served?
#Post#: 65935--------------------------------------------------
Re: Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: Ted Best 2
Date: July 30, 2023, 2:23 pm
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For those still interested I’ve found a bit more information:
After AS Roma’s exit to Liverpool they played in the Champions
League the following season (2001-02). The first match was
against Real Madrid and it was noted Guigou, along with Tomassi
was suspended.
HTML https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/champions-roma-face-test-of-real-politik-1.326832
According to UEFA’s disciplinary code – article 20 - yellow
cards expired at the end of the season.
As far as I can see Guigou received just one previous yellow
card in 2000-01 (vs Boavista).
HTML https://documents.uefa.com/v/u/ylB3CEJuqSd6FXQ2u_3Gsg
The UEFA record indicated a yellow card / red card, implying a
previous yellow card. The video clearly shows they player wasn’t
sent off, and I therefore assume he was suspended
retrospectively, with the Spanish referee having done a “Graham
Poll / Mick Russell”.
HTML https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/match/66909--liverpool-vs-roma/
#Post#: 65938--------------------------------------------------
Re: Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: Scottish Ref
Date: July 30, 2023, 4:31 pm
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Poor refereeing there, no idea why he changes from a penalty to
a corner but it causes him to lose complete control. It’s also
surprising as Garcia Aranda was one of the very top FIFA
Officials in his day, refereeing the opening game and also a SF
in France 98 as well as games in Euro 2000 and many Champions
League appointments.
Interestingly in the more modern game incidents like this seem
much rarer, where as in late 90s early 00s it seemed to happen
more often where the referee would lose complete control.
I seem to remember a few involving the Spaniard Lopez Nieto,
French referee Giles Vessiere, his fellow country man Claude
Colombo and the Swiss referee with the dodgy watch… Dieter
Schoch (in a match involving Aston Villa if I’m not mistaken)
#Post#: 65944--------------------------------------------------
Re: Non reported cautions / yellow cards
DIR By: Ted Best 2
Date: July 31, 2023, 4:49 am
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HTML https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/match/2002399--young-boys-vs-tottenham/
19 yellow cards issued, Pavlyuchenko gets four of them and still
isn't sent off! Clearly an error on UEFA's website data. The
only yellow cards actually issued were Assou-Ekotto (04),
Bassong (68) and Bienvenu (72).
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