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#Post#: 61423--------------------------------------------------
Re: Andre Marriner - LCFC v CFC
DIR By: ajb95
Date: March 14, 2023, 1:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I remember a ref saying, might have been Phil dowd, that a red
card is a red card no matter no is refereeing, no matter the
angle etc.
VAR is showing how poor some referees are at making crucial game
changing decisions!
#Post#: 61425--------------------------------------------------
Re: Andre Marriner - LCFC v CFC
DIR By: rustyref
Date: March 14, 2023, 1:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> I remember a ref saying, might have been Phil dose, that a red
card is a red card no matter no is refereeing, no matter the
angle etc.
>
> VAR is showing how poor some referees are at making crucial
game changing decisions!
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think you are listening to what is being said. VAR is
NOT about getting the correct decision, it is about correcting
clear and obvious errors. The VAR might well watch a replay
where the referee has given a caution and think he would have
given a red, but that isn't the basis for him to recommend a
review. He has to be 100% sure that the referee was absolutely
wrong, that it was a clanger, put it which ever way you like,
but the number of VAR recommendations should be very low. It is
designed for game changing decisions such as Thierry Henry's
handball against Ireland, not routine penalty or red card
decisions. It should only be used for the type of decisions
where 100 referees all watch it and go "whoah, he's dropped a
right clanger there".
#Post#: 61429--------------------------------------------------
Re: Andre Marriner - LCFC v CFC
DIR By: Claretman
Date: March 14, 2023, 2:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=4663.msg61423#msg61423
date=1678818131]
> I remember a ref saying, might have been Phil dose, that a red
card is a red card no matter no is refereeing, no matter the
angle etc.
>
> VAR is showing how poor some referees are at making crucial
game changing decisions!
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think you are listening to what is being said. VAR is
NOT about getting the correct decision, it is about correcting
clear and obvious errors. The VAR might well watch a replay
where the referee has given a caution and think he would have
given a red, but that isn't the basis for him to recommend a
review. He has to be 100% sure that the referee was absolutely
wrong, that it was a clanger, put it which ever way you like,
but the number of VAR recommendations should be very low. It is
designed for game changing decisions such as Thierry Henry's
handball against Ireland, not routine penalty or red card
decisions. It should only be used for the type of decisions
where 100 referees all watch it and go "whoah, he's dropped a
right clanger there".
[/quote]
Let us not forget the onfield referee relays his thoughts and
what he has/has not seen to the var too which will have a
bearing on whether it was clear and obvious too.
#Post#: 61458--------------------------------------------------
Re: Andre Marriner - LCFC v CFC
DIR By: bmb
Date: March 15, 2023, 5:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
It's clear and obvious I have the biggest issue with. If a
referee gives a penalty that is an incorrect decision and VAR
doesn't intervene because it's not clear and obvious, I can't
get my head around how that it is not clear and obvious if the
call is completely wrong.
#Post#: 61468--------------------------------------------------
Re: Andre Marriner - LCFC v CFC
DIR By: ajb95
Date: March 15, 2023, 11:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=4663.msg61423#msg61423
date=1678818131]
> I remember a ref saying, might have been Phil dose, that a red
card is a red card no matter no is refereeing, no matter the
angle etc.
>
> VAR is showing how poor some referees are at making crucial
game changing decisions!
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think you are listening to what is being said. VAR is
NOT about getting the correct decision, it is about correcting
clear and obvious errors. The VAR might well watch a replay
where the referee has given a caution and think he would have
given a red, but that isn't the basis for him to recommend a
review. He has to be 100% sure that the referee was absolutely
wrong, that it was a clanger, put it which ever way you like,
but the number of VAR recommendations should be very low. It is
designed for game changing decisions such as Thierry Henry's
handball against Ireland, not routine penalty or red card
decisions. It should only be used for the type of decisions
where 100 referees all watch it and go "whoah, he's dropped a
right clanger there".
[/quote]
A quite ridiculous statement here. We all know what var was
intending and we all know how it works. But like BMB says, clear
and obvious is a an absolute con. If VAR isn’t there to give the
correct decision, what is it there for?
#Post#: 61471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Andre Marriner - LCFC v CFC
DIR By: rustyref
Date: March 15, 2023, 12:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=rustyref link=topic=4663.msg61425#msg61425
date=1678818925]
> [quote author=ajb95 link=topic=4663.msg61423#msg61423
date=1678818131]
> I remember a ref saying, might have been Phil dose, that a red
card is a red card no matter no is refereeing, no matter the
angle etc.
>
> VAR is showing how poor some referees are at making crucial
game changing decisions!
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't think you are listening to what is being said. VAR is
NOT about getting the correct decision, it is about correcting
clear and obvious errors. The VAR might well watch a replay
where the referee has given a caution and think he would have
given a red, but that isn't the basis for him to recommend a
review. He has to be 100% sure that the referee was absolutely
wrong, that it was a clanger, put it which ever way you like,
but the number of VAR recommendations should be very low. It is
designed for game changing decisions such as Thierry Henry's
handball against Ireland, not routine penalty or red card
decisions. It should only be used for the type of decisions
where 100 referees all watch it and go "whoah, he's dropped a
right clanger there".
[/quote]
A quite ridiculous statement here. We all know what var was
intending and we all know how it works. But like BMB says, clear
and obvious is a an absolute con. If VAR isn’t there to give the
correct decision, what is it there for?
[/quote]
They have always been clear VAR is not there to re-referee the
game, it is for clear and obvious errors only. And I've given a
very clear example of the type of incident it was designed for.
#Post#: 61479--------------------------------------------------
Re: Andre Marriner - LCFC v CFC
DIR By: takethejag
Date: March 15, 2023, 1:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> Consistency is unattainable all the time that the vast
majority of decisions remain subjective, imo. A lenient referee
who referees more within the spirit of the LOTG is always going
to be lenient, a strict 100% by the book referee is always going
to be strict and as such their decisions will be different on
the exact same situation as their subjectivity will be
different. No 2 incidents are ever exactly the same, despite a
high degree of similarity, the angle the ball comes in, the
speed of the players or ball, the angle a tackle comes in from,
other players proximity, the point of contact on the ball or
other player, the force of the contact on the ball or player,
the proximity of the referee, the angle of view the referee has
and how much if at all their view is obscured are just some of
the factors that will make any given scenario, that at first
glance appears the same as another one, a slightly unique
difference from each other and can be the difference between one
being given and the other not given. I believe the best we can
realistically hope for in terms of consistency is that every
referee is consistent in their decision making across a game and
deal with similar incidents in a similar manner.
>
> As to VAR I seem to recall we had many conversations when it
was first spoken of about how a subjective decision made by the
on field referee can/will be reviewed by a different referee who
may or may not have a different tolerance level and their
decision to intervene or not is going to be based on their
subjectivity. We are now seeing how it does (or does not) work!
If I say I'm happy that was just a coming together and that is
my subjective opinion of an incident, but you say well imo it
was reckless and that is your subjective opinion then how can
either of us say well I am right and you are wrong just because
we have a difference in tolerance levels, which directly impacts
our subjectivity?
>
--- End Quote ---
PARKLIFE!
#Post#: 61501--------------------------------------------------
Re: Andre Marriner - LCFC v CFC
DIR By: ajb95
Date: March 16, 2023, 4:06 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Southampton v Brentford last night- awful tackle by Lavia over
the top of the ball, studs raking into opponents ankle, à la
casemeiro. No card shown. No VAR intervention.
Who can possibly defend this shambles?
#Post#: 61502--------------------------------------------------
Re: Andre Marriner - LCFC v CFC
DIR By: tef
Date: March 16, 2023, 4:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> Southampton v Brentford last night- awful tackle by Lavia over
the top of the ball, studs raking into opponents ankle, à la
casemeiro. No card shown. No VAR intervention.
>
> Who can possibly defend this shambles?
>
--- End Quote ---
Swarbrick being on VAR might explain it.
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