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       #Post#: 60334--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: flipmode
       Date: February 21, 2023, 12:48 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: magpie1892 link ---
       >
       > Arteta, Pep and Klopp are the most whigny managers in the PL.
       >
       > Arteta especially this season his antics on the touchline has
       been disgraceful and he's been lucky not to have a time out and
       watch a game from the stands.
       >
       > Howe doesnt really criticise referees or come out and slag
       them off in press conferenced like the above do so i think the
       comments towards Eddie not having attention to detail towards
       the LOTG is frankly absolute rubbish Scally Bob
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I don't know if I'm coming at this with blue tinted glasses on,
       but I would say Pep is one of the fairest managers in the league
       with his post match analysis. He rarely mentions the match
       officials (most recently is the Derby I can think of, and with
       good reason).
       To put him in the same bracket as Klopp and Arteta is like
       comparing a Model Y with a Ford Fiesta.
       #Post#: 60335--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: dave26
       Date: February 21, 2023, 2:05 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Oh dear I have heard it all now we all know 99% of the time
       Keith Hackett talks twaddle  but this takes the biscuit on
       Twitter he has said Taylor was correct to send off Nick Pope (
       really Keith !!! (!) ) but that the red card should be delayed
       so that Nick Pope can play in the final on Sunday
       #Post#: 60336--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: ajb95
       Date: February 21, 2023, 2:40 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: flipmode link ---
       >
       > [quote author=magpie1892 link=topic=4574.msg60237#msg60237
       date=1676828007]
       > Arteta, Pep and Klopp are the most whigny managers in the PL.
       >
       > Arteta especially this season his antics on the touchline has
       been disgraceful and he's been lucky not to have a time out and
       watch a game from the stands.
       >
       > Howe doesnt really criticise referees or come out and slag
       them off in press conferenced like the above do so i think the
       comments towards Eddie not having attention to detail towards
       the LOTG is frankly absolute rubbish Scally Bob
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I don't know if I'm coming at this with blue tinted glasses on,
       but I would say Pep is one of the fairest managers in the league
       with his post match analysis. He rarely mentions the match
       officials (most recently is the Derby I can think of, and with
       good reason).
       To put him in the same bracket as Klopp and Arteta is like
       comparing a Model Y with a Ford Fiesta.
       [/quote]
       Have you not seen him on the touchline? He’s a disgrace! It’s a
       wonder where Arteta gets it from ?!
       #Post#: 60339--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Claretman
       Date: February 21, 2023, 4:59 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: dave26 link ---
       >
       > Oh dear I have heard it all now we all know 99% of the time
       Keith Hackett talks twaddle  but this takes the biscuit on
       Twitter he has said Taylor was correct to send off Nick Pope (
       really Keith !!! (!) ) but that the red card should be delayed
       so that Nick Pope can play in the final on Sunday
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Whilst it would be unfair to change rules mid season, i do agree
       that cards and suspensions incurred in the leagues should not be
       carried into cup competitions.
       #Post#: 60353--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: February 21, 2023, 9:35 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Jake the Peg link ---
       >
       > I suspect the reason why Howe said it was harsh is not because
       he doesn't know the Law on handball but because it is the first
       mistake Pope has made all season and he will miss a cup final as
       a consequence.
       >
       > Also, as has been mentioned above, it is an anomaly that
       yellow cards in the League do not count in the cups but red
       cards do.  Joelinton is currently on 9 yellows but another
       yellow today would not have seen him suspended for the final.
       >
       > Taylor applied the Law correctly.  It's just a bit sad because
       in this case, as Mr Bumble said, "the law is a ass"!
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I guess the change regarding the accumulation of yellow cards
       for cup competitions was introduced a few years ago? I think it
       used to be the case that a random date would be picked (e.g. 31
       December) and if you happened to have 5 yelow cards by then
       you'd get a 1 game suspension and there was no distinction
       between league/cup games.
       But obviously some teams would have played a different number of
       games depending on things like cup runs, postponed games and
       even when TV games were scheduled from a particular round so
       that always seemed a bit of an anomaly in itself, given it was
       about the number of yellow cards accumulated over a number of
       games.
       It has now been changed so, for example, a player is banned if
       they pikc up 5 yellow cards within the first 19 Premier League
       games of the season, regardless of how long it takes to play
       these matches. I think this seems a bit fairer. I suppose it
       also takes away the possibility of a player chooisng to 'use up'
       a suspension in a cup game that they knew they weren't going to
       play in anyway - i.e. if cup games were included in this measure
       and a player was on 4 yellow cards heading into the League Cup
       QF midweek they might try and get the suspension out of the way.
       This doesn't really work the same way for red cards.
       Perhaps the suggested approach where cup suspensions apply to
       the league but league suspensions don't apply to the cup could
       be considered but then I guess you'd hardly ever see suspensions
       for cup games, and if for instance someone was sent off in the
       1st leg of a League Cup semi-final for an awful tackle but able
       to play in the 2nd leg, or sent off in the 3rd round of the FA
       Cup but able to play in a replay, because the suspensions didn't
       apply to those cups then people would question that too. It just
       probably seems a bit of a 'harsh' punishment in this case as it
       happened to be before a final, it was I believe the player's
       first red card in their career and it was for more of a
       technical offence. If it was a serial offender getting sent off
       for a dreadful chall enge or an act of violent conduct, or the
       suspension happened to be an early round cup game that Pope
       might not have been played in anyway, then the reaction would
       probably be different.
       I have sometimes wondered about if the rules regarding players
       being cup tied could be relaxed more so in a sense I might have
       more sympathy with the Dúbravka situation. But again the rules
       are set at the start of the season so everyone knows where they
       stand and there are arguments for why having a rule in place is
       a good idea. And I guess if Dúbravka had stayed on loan at
       Manchester United and happened to play in all the League Cup
       games up to this point he'd presumably have been unable to play
       in the final against his parent club, so that debate about PL
       loans might have come up again in that scenario.
       
       #Post#: 60356--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Guidedog
       Date: February 21, 2023, 10:24 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I think that the 1984 and 2006 cup finals both had players
       missing due to being suspended after sendings off in league
       matches. The fa promised to look into the rule, so any day
       now…..
       #Post#: 60382--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Claretman
       Date: February 21, 2023, 4:35 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Jake the Peg link=topic=4574.msg60240#msg60240
       date=1676832050]
       > I suspect the reason why Howe said it was harsh is not because
       he doesn't know the Law on handball but because it is the first
       mistake Pope has made all season and he will miss a cup final as
       a consequence.
       >
       > Also, as has been mentioned above, it is an anomaly that
       yellow cards in the League do not count in the cups but red
       cards do.  Joelinton is currently on 9 yellows but another
       yellow today would not have seen him suspended for the final.
       >
       > Taylor applied the Law correctly.  It's just a bit sad because
       in this case, as Mr Bumble said, "the law is a ass"!
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I guess the change regarding the accumulation of yellow cards
       for cup competitions was introduced a few years ago? I think it
       used to be the case that a random date would be picked (e.g. 31
       December) and if you happened to have 5 yelow cards by then
       you'd get a 1 game suspension and there was no distinction
       between league/cup games.
       But obviously some teams would have played a different number of
       games depending on things like cup runs, postponed games and
       even when TV games were scheduled from a particular round so
       that always seemed a bit of an anomaly in itself, given it was
       about the number of yellow cards accumulated over a number of
       games.
       It has now been changed so, for example, a player is banned if
       they pikc up 5 yellow cards within the first 19 Premier League
       games of the season, regardless of how long it takes to play
       these matches. I think this seems a bit fairer. I suppose it
       also takes away the possibility of a player chooisng to 'use up'
       a suspension in a cup game that they knew they weren't going to
       play in anyway - i.e. if cup games were included in this measure
       and a player was on 4 yellow cards heading into the League Cup
       QF midweek they might try and get the suspension out of the way.
       This doesn't really work the same way for red cards.
       Perhaps the suggested approach where cup suspensions apply to
       the league but league suspensions don't apply to the cup could
       be considered but then I guess you'd hardly ever see suspensions
       for cup games, and if for instance someone was sent off in the
       1st leg of a League Cup semi-final for an awful tackle but able
       to play in the 2nd leg, or sent off in the 3rd round of the FA
       Cup but able to play in a replay, because the suspensions didn't
       apply to those cups then people would question that too. It just
       probably seems a bit of a 'harsh' punishment in this case as it
       happened to be before a final, it was I believe the player's
       first red card in their career and it was for more of a
       technical offence. If it was a serial offender getting sent off
       for a dreadful chall enge or an act of violent conduct, or the
       suspension happened to be an early round cup game that Pope
       might not have been played in anyway, then the reaction would
       probably be different.
       I have sometimes wondered about if the rules regarding players
       being cup tied could be relaxed more so in a sense I might have
       more sympathy with the Dúbravka situation. But again the rules
       are set at the start of the season so everyone knows where they
       stand and there are arguments for why having a rule in place is
       a good idea. And I guess if Dúbravka had stayed on loan at
       Manchester United and happened to play in all the League Cup
       games up to this point he'd presumably have been unable to play
       in the final against his parent club, so that debate about PL
       loans might have come up again in that scenario.
       
       [/quote]
       Whilst i see where you are coming from regarding cup replays and
       second legs of the league cup semi, however the red card offence
       you mention would carry a three match ban and it is unlikely
       that teams would play three games between a cup game and a
       replay or between two legs of a league cup semi final.
       Perhaps technical offences which incur a one match ban should be
       served in the competition of the original offence, even if it
       overhangs a season or two or three.
       With ref to being cup tied i believe uefa have relaxed the rules
       for champions league etc after the jan transfer window has
       closed.
       #Post#: 60383--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: flipmode
       Date: February 21, 2023, 7:59 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
       >
       > [quote author=flipmode link=topic=4574.msg60334#msg60334
       date=1676962108]
       > [quote author=magpie1892 link=topic=4574.msg60237#msg60237
       date=1676828007]
       > Arteta, Pep and Klopp are the most whigny managers in the PL.
       >
       > Arteta especially this season his antics on the touchline has
       been disgraceful and he's been lucky not to have a time out and
       watch a game from the stands.
       >
       > Howe doesnt really criticise referees or come out and slag
       them off in press conferenced like the above do so i think the
       comments towards Eddie not having attention to detail towards
       the LOTG is frankly absolute rubbish Scally Bob
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I don't know if I'm coming at this with blue tinted glasses on,
       but I would say Pep is one of the fairest managers in the league
       with his post match analysis. He rarely mentions the match
       officials (most recently is the Derby I can think of, and with
       good reason).
       To put him in the same bracket as Klopp and Arteta is like
       comparing a Model Y with a Ford Fiesta.
       [/quote]
       Have you not seen him on the touchline? He’s a disgrace! It’s a
       wonder where Arteta gets it from ?!
       [/quote]
       A disgrace? One senses a heap of hyperbole.
       #Post#: 60385--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: February 22, 2023, 7:10 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Claretman link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=4574.msg60353#msg60353
       date=1676993700]
       > [quote author=Jake the Peg link=topic=4574.msg60240#msg60240
       date=1676832050]
       > I suspect the reason why Howe said it was harsh is not because
       he doesn't know the Law on handball but because it is the first
       mistake Pope has made all season and he will miss a cup final as
       a consequence.
       >
       > Also, as has been mentioned above, it is an anomaly that
       yellow cards in the League do not count in the cups but red
       cards do.  Joelinton is currently on 9 yellows but another
       yellow today would not have seen him suspended for the final.
       >
       > Taylor applied the Law correctly.  It's just a bit sad because
       in this case, as Mr Bumble said, "the law is a ass"!
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I guess the change regarding the accumulation of yellow cards
       for cup competitions was introduced a few years ago? I think it
       used to be the case that a random date would be picked (e.g. 31
       December) and if you happened to have 5 yelow cards by then
       you'd get a 1 game suspension and there was no distinction
       between league/cup games.
       But obviously some teams would have played a different number of
       games depending on things like cup runs, postponed games and
       even when TV games were scheduled from a particular round so
       that always seemed a bit of an anomaly in itself, given it was
       about the number of yellow cards accumulated over a number of
       games.
       It has now been changed so, for example, a player is banned if
       they pikc up 5 yellow cards within the first 19 Premier League
       games of the season, regardless of how long it takes to play
       these matches. I think this seems a bit fairer. I suppose it
       also takes away the possibility of a player chooisng to 'use up'
       a suspension in a cup game that they knew they weren't going to
       play in anyway - i.e. if cup games were included in this measure
       and a player was on 4 yellow cards heading into the League Cup
       QF midweek they might try and get the suspension out of the way.
       This doesn't really work the same way for red cards.
       Perhaps the suggested approach where cup suspensions apply to
       the league but league suspensions don't apply to the cup could
       be considered but then I guess you'd hardly ever see suspensions
       for cup games, and if for instance someone was sent off in the
       1st leg of a League Cup semi-final for an awful tackle but able
       to play in the 2nd leg, or sent off in the 3rd round of the FA
       Cup but able to play in a replay, because the suspensions didn't
       apply to those cups then people would question that too. It just
       probably seems a bit of a 'harsh' punishment in this case as it
       happened to be before a final, it was I believe the player's
       first red card in their career and it was for more of a
       technical offence. If it was a serial offender getting sent off
       for a dreadful chall enge or an act of violent conduct, or the
       suspension happened to be an early round cup game that Pope
       might not have been played in anyway, then the reaction would
       probably be different.
       I have sometimes wondered about if the rules regarding players
       being cup tied could be relaxed more so in a sense I might have
       more sympathy with the Dúbravka situation. But again the rules
       are set at the start of the season so everyone knows where they
       stand and there are arguments for why having a rule in place is
       a good idea. And I guess if Dúbravka had stayed on loan at
       Manchester United and happened to play in all the League Cup
       games up to this point he'd presumably have been unable to play
       in the final against his parent club, so that debate about PL
       loans might have come up again in that scenario.
       
       [/quote]
       Whilst i see where you are coming from regarding cup replays and
       second legs of the league cup semi, however the red card offence
       you mention would carry a three match ban and it is unlikely
       that teams would play three games between a cup game and a
       replay or between two legs of a league cup semi final.
       [/quote]
       Yes, and that's the system we have in place now, where a 3 match
       ban applies immediately.
       But it sounded like the suggestion was cup bans would also only
       apply to league matches (to avoid the issue of a suspension
       being carried over for 3 seasons if only applying to cup games)
       so the above would be an issue.
       I guess you could say a suspension for a red card in a league
       game only applies to league games whereas one in a cup game
       applies to both league and cup games, but that's surely just
       introducing another anomaly in itself.
       #Post#: 60386--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
   DIR By: jacksamuel21
       Date: February 22, 2023, 8:37 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       My thoughts are the system is fine as it is. If they only
       applied to that competition then we end up with a situation
       where a player can still be suspended from a game two seasons
       ago
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