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#Post#: 60334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: flipmode
Date: February 21, 2023, 12:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: magpie1892 link ---
>
> Arteta, Pep and Klopp are the most whigny managers in the PL.
>
> Arteta especially this season his antics on the touchline has
been disgraceful and he's been lucky not to have a time out and
watch a game from the stands.
>
> Howe doesnt really criticise referees or come out and slag
them off in press conferenced like the above do so i think the
comments towards Eddie not having attention to detail towards
the LOTG is frankly absolute rubbish Scally Bob
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't know if I'm coming at this with blue tinted glasses on,
but I would say Pep is one of the fairest managers in the league
with his post match analysis. He rarely mentions the match
officials (most recently is the Derby I can think of, and with
good reason).
To put him in the same bracket as Klopp and Arteta is like
comparing a Model Y with a Ford Fiesta.
#Post#: 60335--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: dave26
Date: February 21, 2023, 2:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Oh dear I have heard it all now we all know 99% of the time
Keith Hackett talks twaddle but this takes the biscuit on
Twitter he has said Taylor was correct to send off Nick Pope (
really Keith !!! (!) ) but that the red card should be delayed
so that Nick Pope can play in the final on Sunday
#Post#: 60336--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: ajb95
Date: February 21, 2023, 2:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: flipmode link ---
>
> [quote author=magpie1892 link=topic=4574.msg60237#msg60237
date=1676828007]
> Arteta, Pep and Klopp are the most whigny managers in the PL.
>
> Arteta especially this season his antics on the touchline has
been disgraceful and he's been lucky not to have a time out and
watch a game from the stands.
>
> Howe doesnt really criticise referees or come out and slag
them off in press conferenced like the above do so i think the
comments towards Eddie not having attention to detail towards
the LOTG is frankly absolute rubbish Scally Bob
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't know if I'm coming at this with blue tinted glasses on,
but I would say Pep is one of the fairest managers in the league
with his post match analysis. He rarely mentions the match
officials (most recently is the Derby I can think of, and with
good reason).
To put him in the same bracket as Klopp and Arteta is like
comparing a Model Y with a Ford Fiesta.
[/quote]
Have you not seen him on the touchline? He’s a disgrace! It’s a
wonder where Arteta gets it from ?!
#Post#: 60339--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: Claretman
Date: February 21, 2023, 4:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: dave26 link ---
>
> Oh dear I have heard it all now we all know 99% of the time
Keith Hackett talks twaddle but this takes the biscuit on
Twitter he has said Taylor was correct to send off Nick Pope (
really Keith !!! (!) ) but that the red card should be delayed
so that Nick Pope can play in the final on Sunday
>
--- End Quote ---
Whilst it would be unfair to change rules mid season, i do agree
that cards and suspensions incurred in the leagues should not be
carried into cup competitions.
#Post#: 60353--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 21, 2023, 9:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jake the Peg link ---
>
> I suspect the reason why Howe said it was harsh is not because
he doesn't know the Law on handball but because it is the first
mistake Pope has made all season and he will miss a cup final as
a consequence.
>
> Also, as has been mentioned above, it is an anomaly that
yellow cards in the League do not count in the cups but red
cards do. Joelinton is currently on 9 yellows but another
yellow today would not have seen him suspended for the final.
>
> Taylor applied the Law correctly. It's just a bit sad because
in this case, as Mr Bumble said, "the law is a ass"!
>
--- End Quote ---
I guess the change regarding the accumulation of yellow cards
for cup competitions was introduced a few years ago? I think it
used to be the case that a random date would be picked (e.g. 31
December) and if you happened to have 5 yelow cards by then
you'd get a 1 game suspension and there was no distinction
between league/cup games.
But obviously some teams would have played a different number of
games depending on things like cup runs, postponed games and
even when TV games were scheduled from a particular round so
that always seemed a bit of an anomaly in itself, given it was
about the number of yellow cards accumulated over a number of
games.
It has now been changed so, for example, a player is banned if
they pikc up 5 yellow cards within the first 19 Premier League
games of the season, regardless of how long it takes to play
these matches. I think this seems a bit fairer. I suppose it
also takes away the possibility of a player chooisng to 'use up'
a suspension in a cup game that they knew they weren't going to
play in anyway - i.e. if cup games were included in this measure
and a player was on 4 yellow cards heading into the League Cup
QF midweek they might try and get the suspension out of the way.
This doesn't really work the same way for red cards.
Perhaps the suggested approach where cup suspensions apply to
the league but league suspensions don't apply to the cup could
be considered but then I guess you'd hardly ever see suspensions
for cup games, and if for instance someone was sent off in the
1st leg of a League Cup semi-final for an awful tackle but able
to play in the 2nd leg, or sent off in the 3rd round of the FA
Cup but able to play in a replay, because the suspensions didn't
apply to those cups then people would question that too. It just
probably seems a bit of a 'harsh' punishment in this case as it
happened to be before a final, it was I believe the player's
first red card in their career and it was for more of a
technical offence. If it was a serial offender getting sent off
for a dreadful chall enge or an act of violent conduct, or the
suspension happened to be an early round cup game that Pope
might not have been played in anyway, then the reaction would
probably be different.
I have sometimes wondered about if the rules regarding players
being cup tied could be relaxed more so in a sense I might have
more sympathy with the Dúbravka situation. But again the rules
are set at the start of the season so everyone knows where they
stand and there are arguments for why having a rule in place is
a good idea. And I guess if Dúbravka had stayed on loan at
Manchester United and happened to play in all the League Cup
games up to this point he'd presumably have been unable to play
in the final against his parent club, so that debate about PL
loans might have come up again in that scenario.
#Post#: 60356--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: Guidedog
Date: February 21, 2023, 10:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I think that the 1984 and 2006 cup finals both had players
missing due to being suspended after sendings off in league
matches. The fa promised to look into the rule, so any day
now…..
#Post#: 60382--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: Claretman
Date: February 21, 2023, 4:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Readingfan link ---
>
> [quote author=Jake the Peg link=topic=4574.msg60240#msg60240
date=1676832050]
> I suspect the reason why Howe said it was harsh is not because
he doesn't know the Law on handball but because it is the first
mistake Pope has made all season and he will miss a cup final as
a consequence.
>
> Also, as has been mentioned above, it is an anomaly that
yellow cards in the League do not count in the cups but red
cards do. Joelinton is currently on 9 yellows but another
yellow today would not have seen him suspended for the final.
>
> Taylor applied the Law correctly. It's just a bit sad because
in this case, as Mr Bumble said, "the law is a ass"!
>
--- End Quote ---
I guess the change regarding the accumulation of yellow cards
for cup competitions was introduced a few years ago? I think it
used to be the case that a random date would be picked (e.g. 31
December) and if you happened to have 5 yelow cards by then
you'd get a 1 game suspension and there was no distinction
between league/cup games.
But obviously some teams would have played a different number of
games depending on things like cup runs, postponed games and
even when TV games were scheduled from a particular round so
that always seemed a bit of an anomaly in itself, given it was
about the number of yellow cards accumulated over a number of
games.
It has now been changed so, for example, a player is banned if
they pikc up 5 yellow cards within the first 19 Premier League
games of the season, regardless of how long it takes to play
these matches. I think this seems a bit fairer. I suppose it
also takes away the possibility of a player chooisng to 'use up'
a suspension in a cup game that they knew they weren't going to
play in anyway - i.e. if cup games were included in this measure
and a player was on 4 yellow cards heading into the League Cup
QF midweek they might try and get the suspension out of the way.
This doesn't really work the same way for red cards.
Perhaps the suggested approach where cup suspensions apply to
the league but league suspensions don't apply to the cup could
be considered but then I guess you'd hardly ever see suspensions
for cup games, and if for instance someone was sent off in the
1st leg of a League Cup semi-final for an awful tackle but able
to play in the 2nd leg, or sent off in the 3rd round of the FA
Cup but able to play in a replay, because the suspensions didn't
apply to those cups then people would question that too. It just
probably seems a bit of a 'harsh' punishment in this case as it
happened to be before a final, it was I believe the player's
first red card in their career and it was for more of a
technical offence. If it was a serial offender getting sent off
for a dreadful chall enge or an act of violent conduct, or the
suspension happened to be an early round cup game that Pope
might not have been played in anyway, then the reaction would
probably be different.
I have sometimes wondered about if the rules regarding players
being cup tied could be relaxed more so in a sense I might have
more sympathy with the Dúbravka situation. But again the rules
are set at the start of the season so everyone knows where they
stand and there are arguments for why having a rule in place is
a good idea. And I guess if Dúbravka had stayed on loan at
Manchester United and happened to play in all the League Cup
games up to this point he'd presumably have been unable to play
in the final against his parent club, so that debate about PL
loans might have come up again in that scenario.
[/quote]
Whilst i see where you are coming from regarding cup replays and
second legs of the league cup semi, however the red card offence
you mention would carry a three match ban and it is unlikely
that teams would play three games between a cup game and a
replay or between two legs of a league cup semi final.
Perhaps technical offences which incur a one match ban should be
served in the competition of the original offence, even if it
overhangs a season or two or three.
With ref to being cup tied i believe uefa have relaxed the rules
for champions league etc after the jan transfer window has
closed.
#Post#: 60383--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: flipmode
Date: February 21, 2023, 7:59 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> [quote author=flipmode link=topic=4574.msg60334#msg60334
date=1676962108]
> [quote author=magpie1892 link=topic=4574.msg60237#msg60237
date=1676828007]
> Arteta, Pep and Klopp are the most whigny managers in the PL.
>
> Arteta especially this season his antics on the touchline has
been disgraceful and he's been lucky not to have a time out and
watch a game from the stands.
>
> Howe doesnt really criticise referees or come out and slag
them off in press conferenced like the above do so i think the
comments towards Eddie not having attention to detail towards
the LOTG is frankly absolute rubbish Scally Bob
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't know if I'm coming at this with blue tinted glasses on,
but I would say Pep is one of the fairest managers in the league
with his post match analysis. He rarely mentions the match
officials (most recently is the Derby I can think of, and with
good reason).
To put him in the same bracket as Klopp and Arteta is like
comparing a Model Y with a Ford Fiesta.
[/quote]
Have you not seen him on the touchline? He’s a disgrace! It’s a
wonder where Arteta gets it from ?!
[/quote]
A disgrace? One senses a heap of hyperbole.
#Post#: 60385--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 22, 2023, 7:10 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> [quote author=Readingfan link=topic=4574.msg60353#msg60353
date=1676993700]
> [quote author=Jake the Peg link=topic=4574.msg60240#msg60240
date=1676832050]
> I suspect the reason why Howe said it was harsh is not because
he doesn't know the Law on handball but because it is the first
mistake Pope has made all season and he will miss a cup final as
a consequence.
>
> Also, as has been mentioned above, it is an anomaly that
yellow cards in the League do not count in the cups but red
cards do. Joelinton is currently on 9 yellows but another
yellow today would not have seen him suspended for the final.
>
> Taylor applied the Law correctly. It's just a bit sad because
in this case, as Mr Bumble said, "the law is a ass"!
>
--- End Quote ---
I guess the change regarding the accumulation of yellow cards
for cup competitions was introduced a few years ago? I think it
used to be the case that a random date would be picked (e.g. 31
December) and if you happened to have 5 yelow cards by then
you'd get a 1 game suspension and there was no distinction
between league/cup games.
But obviously some teams would have played a different number of
games depending on things like cup runs, postponed games and
even when TV games were scheduled from a particular round so
that always seemed a bit of an anomaly in itself, given it was
about the number of yellow cards accumulated over a number of
games.
It has now been changed so, for example, a player is banned if
they pikc up 5 yellow cards within the first 19 Premier League
games of the season, regardless of how long it takes to play
these matches. I think this seems a bit fairer. I suppose it
also takes away the possibility of a player chooisng to 'use up'
a suspension in a cup game that they knew they weren't going to
play in anyway - i.e. if cup games were included in this measure
and a player was on 4 yellow cards heading into the League Cup
QF midweek they might try and get the suspension out of the way.
This doesn't really work the same way for red cards.
Perhaps the suggested approach where cup suspensions apply to
the league but league suspensions don't apply to the cup could
be considered but then I guess you'd hardly ever see suspensions
for cup games, and if for instance someone was sent off in the
1st leg of a League Cup semi-final for an awful tackle but able
to play in the 2nd leg, or sent off in the 3rd round of the FA
Cup but able to play in a replay, because the suspensions didn't
apply to those cups then people would question that too. It just
probably seems a bit of a 'harsh' punishment in this case as it
happened to be before a final, it was I believe the player's
first red card in their career and it was for more of a
technical offence. If it was a serial offender getting sent off
for a dreadful chall enge or an act of violent conduct, or the
suspension happened to be an early round cup game that Pope
might not have been played in anyway, then the reaction would
probably be different.
I have sometimes wondered about if the rules regarding players
being cup tied could be relaxed more so in a sense I might have
more sympathy with the Dúbravka situation. But again the rules
are set at the start of the season so everyone knows where they
stand and there are arguments for why having a rule in place is
a good idea. And I guess if Dúbravka had stayed on loan at
Manchester United and happened to play in all the League Cup
games up to this point he'd presumably have been unable to play
in the final against his parent club, so that debate about PL
loans might have come up again in that scenario.
[/quote]
Whilst i see where you are coming from regarding cup replays and
second legs of the league cup semi, however the red card offence
you mention would carry a three match ban and it is unlikely
that teams would play three games between a cup game and a
replay or between two legs of a league cup semi final.
[/quote]
Yes, and that's the system we have in place now, where a 3 match
ban applies immediately.
But it sounded like the suggestion was cup bans would also only
apply to league matches (to avoid the issue of a suspension
being carried over for 3 seasons if only applying to cup games)
so the above would be an issue.
I guess you could say a suspension for a red card in a league
game only applies to league games whereas one in a cup game
applies to both league and cup games, but that's surely just
introducing another anomaly in itself.
#Post#: 60386--------------------------------------------------
Re: Anthony Taylor (Newcastle vs Liverpool)
DIR By: jacksamuel21
Date: February 22, 2023, 8:37 am
---------------------------------------------------------
My thoughts are the system is fine as it is. If they only
applied to that competition then we end up with a situation
where a player can still be suspended from a game two seasons
ago
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