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#Post#: 59947--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 14, 2023, 10:12 am
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--- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
>
> Everyone who has commented on this topic across the world have
brought up one recurring theme: referees are humans. No matter
how any of them you have or how many screens you have in front
of you, that human error element will never be removed.
>
> This is the main reason I was against VAR from the beginning.
Every decision is still one persons opinion.
>
> There is one thing I wanted to flag (pardon the pun): there
was long VAR check on the rashford goal at Leeds yesterday,
which showed he was a yard onside. Before VAR that isn’t even a
decision as it’s so clear. Same with the disallowed goal shortly
after. We seemed to have lost that in-between medium where
players were either level, or it was too close to call and play
on was called.
>
--- End Quote ---
I agree that whilst you need humans to have input into decisions
you are never going to completely eliminate human error.
But I think having certain systems in place should help to
reduce the number of human errors that occur.
I'd guess there are fewer incorrect offside decisions leading to
goals being allowed/disallowed with VAR than there were before
VAR was introduced.
I'd also think there should be fewer human errors when
semi-automated technology is introduced because the capacity for
human error is further reduced.
In many walks of life, humans are required to make some form of
contribution to a task but having certain
systems/processes/technologies can help reduce the likelihood of
an error occurring - if the number of human errors is reduced
then I don't think you should just completely write that off on
the basis that human error might still occur.
Of course there is a wider discussion that can be had about
whether the downsides of VAR are worth it. But I don't really
subscribe to the human error argument.
#Post#: 59957--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: Deanspen
Date: February 14, 2023, 11:17 am
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I don’t really know exactly what goes on at VAR HQ but I’m
pretty sure that the technology is state of the art. I am
therefore at a complete loss as to how such seemingly
fundamental errors are made after umpteen views, angles, freeze
frames, lines drawn, replays etc etc. No doubt it will be the
ubiquitous “ human error” that is blamed. Therefore if we get
human error with or without VAR what’s the benefit ?
Goal line technology yes, but I’m not sure about the rest.
#Post#: 59965--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: bmb
Date: February 14, 2023, 12:12 pm
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I've been told by several people, who have acted as VAR, that in
relation to offsides the angles/views from the TV are not always
compatible with the drawing lines technology, which causes them
issues. If they don't have clean views from inline or nearly
inline with the incident they are not always able to still draw
accurate lines.
#Post#: 59970--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: Claretman
Date: February 14, 2023, 1:00 pm
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I wonder what outcomes we would have had with the semi automated
system used in the world cup?
#Post#: 59988--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: bruntyboy
Date: February 14, 2023, 4:59 pm
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--- Quote from: bmb link ---
>
> I've been told by several people, who have acted as VAR, that
in relation to offsides the angles/views from the TV are not
always compatible with the drawing lines technology, which
causes them issues. If they don't have clean views from inline
or nearly inline with the incident they are not always able to
still draw accurate lines.
>
--- End Quote ---
What happens in that instance? Do they just make it up?
The big claim was that offsides would be black or white
decisions. Yet another nail in the coffin after all the other
instances where the tv cameras couldn't show all of the relevant
players. in the frame.
#Post#: 59998--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: bmb
Date: February 14, 2023, 8:22 pm
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If they can’t draw the lines then they have to go with the
onfield decision
#Post#: 59999--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: Observeref8
Date: February 15, 2023, 2:30 am
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I love Webb very swift and decisive snd also will not loose face
with the clubs now.
Riley is partly to blame for this monster created s fear factor
for making decisions or getting involved.
We sre world worse users of VAR imo
Too many big decisions fail to get intervention you never know
from one minute to the next.
Let’s see referees deliver more swift justice or role to get rid
…. Feel sorry for brooks but mason not so
#Post#: 60018--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: rustyref
Date: February 15, 2023, 11:21 am
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--- Quote from: Claretman link ---
>
> I wonder what outcomes we would have had with the semi
automated system used in the world cup?
>
--- End Quote ---
It still needs a human to indicate there has been a possible
offside offence to check, and to indicate where that potential
offence took place, so I'm struggling to see that it would have
made any difference.
#Post#: 60061--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: Readingfan
Date: February 16, 2023, 10:14 am
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--- Quote from: rustyref link ---
>
> [quote author=Claretman link=topic=4547.msg59970#msg59970
date=1676401224]
> I wonder what outcomes we would have had with the semi
automated system used in the world cup?
>
--- End Quote ---
It still needs a human to indicate there has been a possible
offside offence to check, and to indicate where that potential
offence took place, so I'm struggling to see that it would have
made any difference.
[/quote]
It would have meant they didn't need to draw the lines for the
Palace V Brighton game so wouldn't have got the wrong player.
For the Arsenal game, I guess they would have been able to deal
with the Pinnock part a lot quicker (if Dale Johnson is right
that they couldn't calibrate the lines for that part) which I
suspect would have made the next part easier too as there'd have
been less tiem presure, if it had even come to that part. I'd
presume it would be easier to identify an offside player using
the semi-automated system too but who knows.
#Post#: 60096--------------------------------------------------
Re: Webb Calls emergency meeting
DIR By: Boris10
Date: February 17, 2023, 2:46 pm
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Been in Germany last 2 weeks and missed the VAR furore.However,I
did see two interesting games on TV.Both games involved teams
trying to get into the last 8 of the German Cup and were deemed
important enough to have FIFA officials.As I watch little live
football,both officials were new to me.
First up was Frankfurt-Darmstadt.Felix Zwayer in charge.I have
read previous criticism of this official on this forum,but on
the night I thought he was good.He was up with play and
refereed the game well.He was quickly in after a scuffle early
on and both players got yellow cards.He continued to be
consistent in applying the laws and there were 7 more
yellows.All but the last[very soft]were justified.
The following night we had Bochum-Dortmund.Tobias Stieler in
charge.Mr Stieler clearly has been influenced by the
Thornton-in-Cleveland school of refereeing.The game was hard
with lots of niggling fouls and Mr Stieler only gave some of
them.He seemed disinterested at times although he spoke a lot to
players,to little effect.The main tallking point was Bochum's
penalty in the second half.A blatant push on a Dortmund
defender was [as usual]undetected.Bochum played the ball out
right and the ball was blasted from about 3 yards at a Dortmund
defender-it hit his lower arm as he tried to defend himself and
Mr Stieler gave a penalty straight away.However,VAR intervened.
Replays showed the offence occurred on the very edge of the
area.Mr Stieler was invited to view the incident at the
pitchside monitor.After an eternity-3 minutes 44 seconds
according to German TV the following w/e-he stuck to his
decision.I must admit after seeing several replays I could not
decide exactly where the defender was.In the end Dortmund scored
again but there was lots more niggle and only 3 bookings,with 2
of them for dissent.The last yellow ought to have been a
red-cautioned player continued to argue after the yellow and
even after the match.I was not too impressed with this
referee,although I supposed he tried to keep everyone on the
field.
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