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#Post#: 59289--------------------------------------------------
Wroxham v Hashtag
DIR By: RefGod
Date: February 1, 2023, 11:29 am
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Looking for thoughts on this fixture, particularly the two red
cards for the away. It is still being discussed amongst the
contrib scene.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZWl9XwZwMQ&t=1048s
05:20 - 1st caution away 3.
06:45 - 2nd caution away 3.
07:30 - caution away 12.
09:45 - 1st caution away 15.
12:30 - foul on away 15.
14:30 - 2nd caution away 15.
15:45 - penalty for away 9.
#Post#: 59324--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
DIR By: adcr85
Date: February 2, 2023, 7:34 am
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Watched this last night, as you say some interesting decisions.
First red card (2 yellows for left back in first 10 mins) both
in isolation are probably cautions at that level, one slide in
late and one shirt pull. Its one of those as the ref where
though we deal with whats in front of us, you probably wouldn't
want that in the first 10 mins of a game you are reffing that
you know being filmed. Only slight issue with ref (though it may
be editing) is he seemed to take a long time to get cards out
which makes it look like he was reacting to the calls for a red,
rather than working it out for himself.
Now I have no idea, but the 15 is an ex PL player, who Hashtag
bring on after the first red card and with no evidence, I think
they bring on to kill the game, sit in centre mid and
potentially 'manage' the ref a little, and ends up getting 2
soft yellows - for dissent and simulation in his own third. The
commentators argue that it was unfair but I think more he just
kept on at the ref, was trying to ref the game itself and then
the ref finds an excuse to get rid of him. Not saying right or
wrong, but probably understandable.
Late penalty was a funny one, i think striker is already on the
way down and defender falls on top of him - actually not as
clear cut as some may think - but as it ends with defender lyign
on top of striker, so penalty was correct.
Overall i think management of the game would have been hard
after giving 2 yellows/red in first 10, as then every slide in
and shirt pull became a yellow, thus leading to dissent and a
bit of a farce. Potential answer would have been to manage the
situation in the first 10 mins rather than give 2 yellows
(potentially manage the first one), but also see if someone
dives in after 3 mins giving yellow is fine, but you would hope
that would calm the player down
#Post#: 59332--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
DIR By: RefGod
Date: February 2, 2023, 12:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: adcr85 link ---
>
> Watched this last night, as you say some interesting
decisions.
>
> First red card (2 yellows for left back in first 10 mins) both
in isolation are probably cautions at that level, one slide in
late and one shirt pull. Its one of those as the ref where
though we deal with whats in front of us, you probably wouldn't
want that in the first 10 mins of a game you are reffing that
you know being filmed. Only slight issue with ref (though it may
be editing) is he seemed to take a long time to get cards out
which makes it look like he was reacting to the calls for a red,
rather than working it out for himself.
>
> Now I have no idea, but the 15 is an ex PL player, who Hashtag
bring on after the first red card and with no evidence, I think
they bring on to kill the game, sit in centre mid and
potentially 'manage' the ref a little, and ends up getting 2
soft yellows - for dissent and simulation in his own third. The
commentators argue that it was unfair but I think more he just
kept on at the ref, was trying to ref the game itself and then
the ref finds an excuse to get rid of him. Not saying right or
wrong, but probably understandable.
>
> Late penalty was a funny one, i think striker is already on
the way down and defender falls on top of him - actually not as
clear cut as some may think - but as it ends with defender lyign
on top of striker, so penalty was correct.
>
> Overall i think management of the game would have been hard
after giving 2 yellows/red in first 10, as then every slide in
and shirt pull became a yellow, thus leading to dissent and a
bit of a farce. Potential answer would have been to manage the
situation in the first 10 mins rather than give 2 yellows
(potentially manage the first one), but also see if someone
dives in after 3 mins giving yellow is fine, but you would hope
that would calm the player down
>
--- End Quote ---
Saw on social media that the away club admit the editing does
not give the full picture.
I am surprised this thread has not taken off considering the
extensive debate that's still ongoing amongst officials at
differing levels all over the country.
#Post#: 59334--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
DIR By: rustyref
Date: February 2, 2023, 12:22 pm
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First caution is stopping a promising attack so mandatory
caution, especially at that level. Ditto second caution, once a
foul is given it can only be a caution and red.
Away 12 caution, he has clearly said something so been cautioned
for dissent (no sin bin at this level). Likewise away 15 seems
to be dissent.
Foul on away 15. Possible contact, but he has gone down very
easily and was definitely looking for it. Same really for his
second caution, there may have been a tiny bit of contact but he
has then flung himself down very dramatically. Perhaps him
being an ex-Premier League player means he has learned the dark
arts but referees at this level are less likely to fall for it
or turn a blind eye.
I'm really struggling to see the cause of the penalty, the
attacker just seems to fall over then the defender falls on top
of him. There's a possible arm on his back, but he was already
almost on his knees by that point.
Something that a lot of people in football don't understand,
backed up by the comments on the video, is that when a player is
fouled when moving into space it has to be a caution for
stopping a promising attack. It doesn't matter if the foul was
"soft" or was totally accidental, it can only be a caution.
#Post#: 59342--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
DIR By: MCPridz
Date: February 2, 2023, 5:03 pm
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Slightly off-topic so apologies but it is about Hashtag but I
didn't know until looking up earlier today who the ex-prem
player was that played for Hashtag which is Greg Halford, but
the thing I found that is since 2018 Cesar Apzilicueta was a
co-owner I did not know that, but it was this blog that did
actually lead me to see who the ex-prem player was
#Post#: 59354--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
DIR By: Game of Throw Ins
Date: February 3, 2023, 5:22 am
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I’m often the first to complain when referees ‘manage the game’
instead of enforcing the laws but I think that I would prefer to
see a greater element of that in this case.
That being said I didn’t see any yellow cards that appeared to
be obviously wrong. Not sure at all about the penalty decision
though.
#Post#: 59357--------------------------------------------------
Re: Wroxham v Hashtag
DIR By: RefGod
Date: February 3, 2023, 10:30 am
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--- Quote from: Game of Throw Ins link ---
>
> I’m often the first to complain when referees ‘manage the
game’ instead of enforcing the laws but I think that I would
prefer to see a greater element of that in this case.
>
> That being said I didn’t see any yellow cards that appeared to
be obviously wrong. Not sure at all about the penalty decision
though.
>
--- End Quote ---
This is without discussing decisions that were not given,
particularly against Wroxham, of which many are evident in the
video and could be considered cautionable utilising the
rationale referenced by previous posts.
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