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#Post#: 52598--------------------------------------------------
Seen him - tick!
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: September 10, 2022, 8:46 am
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In the absence of any football, I have been taking a look
through my well-thumbed copy of Upton's. Looking at 1946-79 to
begin with, I reckon I saw live about 100 FL referees, mostly at
Selhurst Park, these being detailed below. I can name at least
one relevant match for most of the referees listed. Can anyone
match this or care to comment, other than to confirm that I must
lead a very sad life?! I'll post the later period soon.
N Ashley, K Baker, M Baker, P Baldwin, V Batty, D Biddle, W
Bombroff, D Brady, J Bray, L Burden, K Burns, V Callow, W
Castle, N Burtenshaw, P Bye, L Callaghan, W Clements, D Corbett,
G Courtney, R Crabb, K Dagnall, R Darlington, H Davey, T Dawes,
J Finney, G Flint, M Fussey, A Glasson, W Gow, A Gunn, K
Hackett, B Hill, G Hill, J Homewood, K Howley, E Hughes, J
Hunting, D Hutchinson, V James, E Jennings, R Johnson, E Jolly,
G Jones, I Jones, M Kerkof, G Kew, R Kirkpatrick, R Lee, A Lees,
D Lloyd, M Lowe, D Lyden, B Martin, J Martin, C Maskell, R
Matthewson, N Midgley, T Mills, A Morrissey, G Napthine, H New,
C Newsome, C Nicholls, F Nicholson, D Nippard, R Paine, P
Partridge, E Read, P Reeves, T Reynolds, A Robinson, G Roper, K
Salmon, M Scott, A Seville, J Sewell, L Shapter, M Sinclair, D
Smith, T Spencer, R Spittle, B Stevens, K Styles, J Taylor, M
Taylor, J Thacker, C Thomas, R Tinkler, R Toseland, D Turner, K
Walker, E Wallace, P Walters, A Weller, C White, H Williams, J
Worrall, K Wynn, J Yates.
#Post#: 52619--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seen him - tick!
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: September 11, 2022, 9:09 am
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Here are the 80-odd referees that I have seen live since 1980.
Those also in the earlier list have been omitted this time. I
had a long period in the 1990s when I saw very little League
football. Also, Upton's ended in 2004, so there may be others in
the intervening period up to this season's list that I saw but
cannot now recall. As my trips to see Crystal Palace have become
rather sporadic over the past few years, there are a few notable
SG1 absences from the list, including Howard Webb, Mark Halsey,
Phil Dowd and 'Grandad' Walton.
M Atkinson, S Attwell, A Backhouse, J Ball, K Barratt, N Barry,
A Bates, D Bond, R Booth, C Boyeson, S Bratt, C Breakspear, M
Clattenburg, D Coote, M Coy, M Dean, M Donohue, D Drysdale, S
Duncan, R East, G Eltringham, K Evans, W Finnie, C Foy, K
Friend, F Graham, R Groves, A Haines, D Handley, M Heath, K
Hill, T Holbrook, G Horwood, E Ilderton, O Langford, M Jones, P
Joslin, R Joyce, C Kavanagh, R (Rob) Lewis, J Linington, B
Malone, S Mathieson, A Marriner, K Miller, N Miller, J Moss, M
Naylor, T Nield, M Oliver, A Penn, G Poll, L Probert, D Rock, S
Purkiss, P Rejer, T Robinson, J Rushton, S Rushton, M Russell, G
Salisbury, M Salisbury, C Sarginson, B Speedie, S Stockbridge, K
Stroud, R Styles, L Swabey, A Taylor, B Toner, G Ward, D Webb, C
Webster, A Wiley, A Wilkie, K Woolmer, K Wright, P Wright.
#Post#: 52622--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seen him - tick!
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 11, 2022, 9:49 am
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A quick trawl through Upton's records 1949 -79 reveals these
referees whom I have seen officiate live
Ashley, Baker KW, Baker MR, Banks, Bent, Biddle, Bosi, Bray,
Bridges, Bune, Burden, Burns, Burtenshaw, Butcher, Capey,
Challis, Civil, Courtney, Crabb, Daniels, Davey, Flint, Glasson,
Glover, Gow, Grey, Gunn, Hackett, Hackney, Hamil, Hart, Hayes,
Hill B, Hill GW, Homewood, Hough, Hunting, Hutchinson, James
BML, Jones AWS, Jones IP, Kew, Kirkpatrick, Lees, Letts, Lewis
RS, Lloyd, Lowe, Martin B, Martin JE, Maskell, Mills, Morrissey,
Napthine, New, Newsome, Nippard, Partridge, Perkin, Read,
Redfern, Reeves DV, Reeves P, Reynolds, Richardson D, Robinson
A, Robinson HR, Salmon, Saunders, Seel, Seville, Shapter,
Sinclair, Smith IT, Spencer, Stevens, Styles, Taylor J, Taylor
MJ, Thomas, Tinkler, Toseland, Turner D, Turvey, Tyldesley,
Tyson, Vickers, Wallace, Walmsley, Webb DA, White, Williams H,
Willis, Worrall, Yates JH.
So much football, so many hours, so many referees. It's a wonder
I managed to do any officiating myself at all ! !
Some great referees in that number, Jack Taylor, Pat Partridge,
George Courtney, Joe Worrall the standout names.
Some good all round performers Jim Bent, Tom Bune, David
Hutchinson, Arthur Jones, John Martin, Derek Nippard, Peter
Reeves, Malcolm Sinclair, George Tyson among others.
Some who really shouldn't have 'troubled the scorer ' for too
long Brian James, David Letts, Ken Redfern and Alan Turvey.
#Post#: 52624--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seen him - tick!
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: September 11, 2022, 10:56 am
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Thanks Whistleblower. I should perhaps have added that I lined
to a number of FL referees in their pre or post-FL days,
including Dennis Hedges and Tony Oliver (both gentlemen and top
class refs), Philip Don (up-and-coming) and yes, Brian James who
was the ruin of me one evening when his famed temper came to the
fore. I resigned the same evening! And Cyril Smith, John Martin,
Tony Cox and Roy Capey were all valued RA colleagues at one
time. Memories!
#Post#: 52638--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seen him - tick!
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 11, 2022, 5:39 pm
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Thank you for sharing these memories Acme Thunderer. Of those
names only Cyril Smith is unknown to me. Consulting Upton, would
this be C C Smith ( East Croydon ) who is listed as a
Supplementary Referee for the season 1972/73
Of those who were to become National List referees, the three I
have lined to were Mike Bailey, David Hutchinson and David
Elleray. All three were pleasant and charming colleagues. Two of
them very modest men and one very, very sure of his abilities. I
wonder if you can guess which one that was ?[emoji6]
#Post#: 52640--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seen him - tick!
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 11, 2022, 6:20 pm
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--- Quote from: Acme Thunderer link ---
>
> Thanks Whistleblower. I should perhaps have added that I lined
to a number of FL referees in their pre or post-FL days,
including Dennis Hedges and Tony Oliver (both gentlemen and top
class refs), Philip Don (up-and-coming) and yes, Brian James who
was the ruin of me one evening when his famed temper came to the
fore. I resigned the same evening! And Cyril Smith, John Martin,
Tony Cox and Roy Capey were all valued RA colleagues at one
time. Memories!
>
--- End Quote ---
Perhaps there is something about the surname 'James' when it
comes to referees. The only referee I have really, really
disliked running the line to was a certain M James and this is
definitely NOT the Horsham referee whom I have never met. I may
have related this before on RTR but as a very newly qualified
official I was running the line to M James and probably making a
fair few mistakes. On at least three occasions during the first
half he very publicly took issue with what I had done and did so
in a most humiliating manner. As I walked towards him after the
half time whistle was blown, a player ran by me and said " don't
worry about him lino, everyone knows he's a right **** " Not
language I would use myself but I couldn't argue with the
veracity of the comment. I believe this M James ended up on the
Football League line and if he ever had ambitions to become a
Football League referee they were not realised and I must say,
perhaps a bit meanly, I'm rather glad.
#Post#: 52651--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seen him - tick!
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: September 12, 2022, 3:48 am
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--- Quote from: Whistleblower link ---
>
> Thank you for sharing these memories Acme Thunderer. Of those
names only Cyril Smith is unknown to me. Consulting Upton, would
this be C C Smith ( East Croydon ) who is listed as a
Supplementary Referee for the season 1972/73
>
> Of those who were to become National List referees, the three
I have lined to were Mike Bailey, David Hutchinson and David
Elleray. All three were pleasant and charming colleagues. Two of
them very modest men and one very, very sure of his abilities. I
wonder if you can guess which one that was ?[emoji6]
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed it is - Cyril Smith of East Croydon. A smallish chap with
dark hair, Cyril was a thoroughly decent man and a good referee
who came on to the FL list at a greater age than some others. He
then had injury problems which, combined with a 'howler' at
Lincoln when he allowed a goal following a Ray Wood / Harry
Gregg charge on the goalie, did not help his prospects and he
came off the list after just one season as a supplementary
rather than the normal two. I don't recall what happened to him
after that but I don't think it included football refereeing.
I'm sure RTR contributors will be able to tell which of the
three refs was very sure of his abilities! Lord, we should be
able to!
Your experience of 'Mr James' was very similar to mine, except
that my humiliation came in the dressing room, Fergie-style, at
half time. BMLJ was actually wrong on both counts but that
didn't stop him wading in. I thought of getting dressed there
and then but that would probably have earned me a suspension.
Suffice to say that I got dressed whilst said BMLJ was in the
shower at the end of the game and was out of the ground - unpaid
- before he came out. I paused to thank the other bewildered
young lino and my letter of resignation was in the post the same
evening. [emoji21]
#Post#: 52664--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seen him - tick!
DIR By: Whistleblower
Date: September 12, 2022, 8:06 am
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What appalling behaviour from BMLJ and totally unwarranted. I am
fortunate never to have received a harangue like that in a
football changing room but if it were to have happened I would
respond in the same way I always have done when someone is
behaving rudely and dreadfully towards me by saying something
like " If you are going to speak to me you will speak civilly or
not at all and will I give you the courtesy of listening when
you are in possession of yourself " The M James who so publicly
called me out was civil enough in the changing room afterwards
and said something about the value of experience and that
performances improve the more games you get under your belt. I
thanked him for his wisdom on the matter, he was too full of
himself to notice it was said with my tongue firmly in my cheek.
I have a feeling BML James got kicked off the National List
before his retirement age, is that right ? Usually what goes
around comes around.
#Post#: 52665--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seen him - tick!
DIR By: John Treleven
Date: September 12, 2022, 8:52 am
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Bryan Maurice Leslie J...s (1932-1998) of Dartford and later
South Croydon
F.L. line 67-8 to 74-5, so did not make it to 47 years of age
Very little on him except he refereed Chester v Rochdale 2nd Nov
1974 in Div 4
Which seems odd as he was not a Supp Ref and it was a long way
off his "home patch"
Perhaps something in that match stopped him returning to the
F.L. list, even as a lino?
He cautioned four players, a pair for handbags 23, another 26
and lastly on 55, nothing seemingly untoward
#Post#: 52667--------------------------------------------------
Re: Seen him - tick!
DIR By: Acme Thunderer
Date: September 12, 2022, 9:42 am
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Thank you JT. Brian James' claim to fame came as the linesman
involved in the infamous Keegan v Bremner punch-up during the
Charity Shield Final of 1974. Referee was Bob Matthewson and
Brian is the tall linesman taking notes beside him. Brian also
appeared on MOTD as the referee at Nottingham Forest but I don't
recall any other details. He became a supplementary referee
after the 1974 Charity Shield Final and served a further two
seasons as a full FL ref before coming off the list. And based
on my later experience of him, it is not difficult to understand
why his career at the top table was so brief!
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