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       #Post#: 52543--------------------------------------------------
       Man United vs Real Sociedad
   DIR By: jacksamuel21
       Date: September 8, 2022, 3:42 pm
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       Absolutely shocking penalty decision. Just awful, never a
       penalty in a million years. Ball clearly deflected off Martinez
       leg into his arm in a natural position for his movement.
       Not sure what Irrati on VAR was watching.
       Apparently that’s a penalty in Italy. I always thought
       refereeing in Europe was better but the evidence of the last few
       days tells me otherwise. Any contact is a foul in Spain. Andy
       touch of the hand is handball in Italy
       #Post#: 52546--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Man United vs Real Sociedad
   DIR By: Ref Fan
       Date: September 8, 2022, 4:09 pm
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       I've given up trying to understand whether the ball hitting
       another part of the body before the arm counts or not these
       days.  It looked to me as if the only reason the ball hit the
       arm (and it was quite high up on the arm it seemed to me) was
       because of the deflection off the leg.  But it was always
       unlikely in my view an Italian VAR would intervene and advise an
       OFR.
       #Post#: 52547--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Man United vs Real Sociedad
   DIR By: TheThingFromLewes
       Date: September 8, 2022, 4:29 pm
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       --- Quote from: jacksamuel21 link ---
       >
       > Absolutely shocking penalty decision. Just awful, never a
       penalty in a million years. Ball clearly deflected off Martinez
       leg into his arm in a natural position for his movement.
       >
       > Not sure what Irrati on VAR was watching.
       >
       >
       > Apparently that’s a penalty in Italy. I always thought
       refereeing in Europe was better but the evidence of the last few
       days tells me otherwise. Any contact is a foul in Spain. Andy
       touch of the hand is handball in Italy
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Irrati has always been hopeless as VAR, and although I’ve not
       seen the said incident, it doesn’t surprise me that he has had
       another controversy.
       #Post#: 52548--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Man United vs Real Sociedad
   DIR By: jacksamuel21
       Date: September 8, 2022, 4:35 pm
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       Man United player also stamped down the back of the Sociedad
       player in the last minute- took his boot off. Nothing given and
       no complaints, However it’s more of a penalty than other
       penalties given.
       #Post#: 52549--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Man United vs Real Sociedad
   DIR By: ajb95
       Date: September 8, 2022, 5:10 pm
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       I thought the rules were that if it came off part of the body
       onto the hand it wasn’t a penalty, or have the rules since
       changed.
       Terrible decision from a referee who had a shocking night all
       round
       #Post#: 52555--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Man United vs Real Sociedad
   DIR By: Affy_Moose
       Date: September 9, 2022, 4:00 am
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       --- Quote from: ajb95 link ---
       >
       > I thought the rules were that if it came off part of the body
       onto the hand it wasn’t a penalty, or have the rules since
       changed.
       > Terrible decision from a referee who had a shocking night all
       round
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       It hasn't been in the LotG since 2020-2021.  Law 12 and the
       handball law has no mention of it at all.
       We aren't privy to the guidance/expectations of European
       officials for UEFA competition.  Whilst justification can be
       made (player throws body at ball, looks the other other way, and
       the arm does observably block a shot on goal), the circumstance
       really doesn't seem compatible with "what football expects".
       I would doubt that it would be given in England, but I can't say
       that with a level of certainty I would like to.
       #Post#: 52584--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Man United vs Real Sociedad
   DIR By: rustyref
       Date: September 9, 2022, 11:26 am
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       There is absolutely nothing about it not being handball if it
       defects off another part of your body, as Affy_Mouse says it was
       taken out.  All the officials can judge now is was it
       justifiable for their arm to be in that position for the
       specific situation.  Full text below.
       It is an offence if a player:
       • deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, for
       example moving the hand/arm towards the ball
       • touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made
       their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have
       made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their
       hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the
       player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having
       their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of
       their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised
       I haven't seen this specific incident, but if his arm was out
       from his body he is no longer protected by it deflecting off of
       him.
       #Post#: 52592--------------------------------------------------
       Re: Man United vs Real Sociedad
   DIR By: Readingfan
       Date: September 9, 2022, 2:01 pm
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       I don't know if relevant to this situation but Dale Johnson
       posted in his VAR review a few weeks ago in relation to the
       Spurs V West Ham penalty that the ball being deliberately played
       by a defender before it hit their hand was an exception and
       IFAB's guidance included reference to the Argentina V Nigeria
       situation from 2018 World Cup not being a penalty. Cakir was
       advised to look at the monitor for it but chose to stuck to his
       original decision of no penalty. Article also mentions the ball
       changing trajectory before it hits the hand as being relevant -
  HTML https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/4734387/the-var-review-tottenhams-penaltyisak-offsideramsdale-foul<br
       />
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